Why Did They Attack India?

Well-written Chandra! The last paragraph is especially true and I hope these attacks change things. Pakistan canceled the trip that their intelligence agent was going to make and instead chose to send just a representative because an accusation towards Pakistan had been perceived. I wish political leaders of both nations understood that even if the terrorist was Pakistani, it is very likely that the current government of Pakistan was either not involved or was as unaware as the Indian intelligence was of this attack. And the only way the Pakistani government can confirm that is by helping the investigations in every which way they can. It is high time we make a distinction between terrorists and the countries whose passports they hold.

Chandra,

Agree with everything you have written here! Well done! There may be other explanations and factors, but you get to the heart of the matter.

'Naturally the smarter ones amongst us then becomes a politician. This culture has to change and from within each one of us'.
Well Written Chandra
My Congratulations

The word is out. Per the terrorist that was nabbed his alarming revelations are... These terrorists were trained in Karachi by Pakistani army and the ISI was aware of it. If they were, then it's obvious that the Pakistani government was also aware of it. Several 'on-field' trainings take place out there and many more such Pakistanis are being trained to carry more of such these deadly activities.

We Indians never wanted the partition...the Muslims wanted it and took Pakistan from us. Since 1947 to now, several Indian governments, several political parties, civilians too have made umpteen genuine efforts to mend ties with Pakistan but all of those have been rejected or where we've backstabbed ruthlessly.

--I remember Mr Vajpayee made a genuine symbolic effort when he started the bus route to Pakistan, but in the back Pakistan was planning an attack on us...Kargil war. Once again we were backstabbed.

--And now the Pakistan officials were to be our country for discussions and in the back once again they planned this attack on us. A smart move to camouflage their actual intentions.

Instead of concentrating on mending relationships with Pakistan, I think we should leave them alone and concentrate more on our security, our growth and never never never trust them again, never let our guard down.

We need more protection for us, more safety, security every where, especially our local transport so that a common man taking a train to work and back home, feels safe. Our children feel safe and protected.

Sam, but they look like us. They eat the same food and they too enjoy Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan and listen to 'Junoon.' Why shouldn't we try to be friends with them?

Aditi:

""It is high time we make a distinction between terrorists and the countries whose passports they hold."'

This is the same kind of lefty, psecular, anti-patriotic tripe that got us into this mess in the first place...

Oops sorry! My so-called brains were momentarily Kertified and Man Singhed. I need a few minutes to get them re-wired.

My personal opinion is that lack of adequate toilets and too much pubic hairs is why terrorism is on the rise in India. Unless India solves these twin menace, terrorism can not be removed. India should focus on solving these problems before thinking about tackling terrorism.

Other Indians might have their own take on root causes that lead to terrorism - so we could potentially have several billion root causes that India must fix - I think that is more than enough reasons why India should focus on something else rather than terrorism.

Sam "We Indians never wanted the partition...the Muslims wanted it and took Pakistan from us"

There are several things political, historical and geographical that are wrong with this sentence.

Many Muslim families were torn apart during the partition. If all Muslims wanted the partition then that really does not explain the high number of Muslims still living in India as families, hard-working, non-violent citizens who are equally devastated when terror strikes.

Secondly this does not make sense: "Indians never wanted the partition"

One really cannot speak for "Indians" who lived so many years before they did. More importantly Pakistanis at that point in history were Indians too.

Exclusion and alienation have fueled terrorism more than anything else. You have teen-terrorists who smile as they rain bullets on innocent people because they have been led to believe that this hatred is mutual. In order to kill a person, it is important for anyone to believe that they are an enemy. If our words prove them right, establish that we are in fact the enemy, then this cycle will continue. Extremist agendas will find more recruits who have been treated by society as not human but as "Muslim". If we exclude, segregate and alienate cultures, religions and races we will always have a segment of society precipitating towards violent retaliation of perceived disdain and hatred on our part towards them.

This is the least favorable time for any person, Indian, Israeli, American or British to be pinning this on Muslims and further alienating this group.

This is not lefty and secular. It is humane. It is a civil way of dealing with an issue that has only gotten worse. Bush's pre-emptive strike didn't stop it, war didn't scare them....these only alienated them further and worsened the problem. Now we have the information we need in order to know that we have been wrong until now and we can try something different this time.

SD

"This is the least favorable time for any person, Indian, Israeli, American or British to be pinning this on Muslims and further alienating this group."

What would you suggest is the most favorable time?

What should we do so That Pakistani Jehadis do not feel isolated and alienated - perhaps give them more resources, money, power so that they can use more sophisticated means, so that they do not have to resort to terrorism because they can now achieve their aims by political and military means?

BTW, 90% of Moslems had voted for Moslem League as a referendum on its demand for Pakistan. Why same Moslems stayed back in India is a puzzle - in part because indian psec leadership needed them in india to ward off Hindu demand for Hindu Rastra, while Moslems who fought for Pakistan felt what they got as Pakistan was not enough as they wanted remaining parts of India too - 'Hans Ke Liya Pakistan, Lad Ke Lenge Baki Stan'. That is what has locked Pakistan and Indian moslems in Jehadi battle against notion of India - secular as well as Hindu. Moslems have not been able to separate empowerment of moslem and empowerment of jehad against India - why empowerment of moslems has remained off the agenda in India.

kerty: when i said "least favorable time" I had hoped people would know I was referring to change in what we have been doing in the past. I also hope you know that people aren't born jehadis. somewhere along the line, they are driven into it. and if we cannot simultaneously work on eliminating terrorism and in preventing more young men from becoming terrorists, we will only be holding our breaths waiting for the next attack to happen. Personally I do not think money is the key. Empowering a person is not giving him the sustenance but in teaching him the means to get to that sustenance independently. These nations where terrorism need education, resources that will expand their world view and improve their respect for those in their neighboring countries. A lot of young men are driven into doing something just so they could feel a sense of belonging.

Kerty

Irrespective of how many Indian muslims are involved, the most foolish thing is to blame the entire community at this point in time. It is best served that we blame Pakistan for all our problems. Having said that, there is enough evidence to show that Pakistanis were involved. A great confidence building measure will be if Dawood and Salauddin are handed over to India or killed by Pakistani intelligence in a fake encounter....

SD,

Please make an attempt to understand the essence behind my comment and there was nothing wrong with my comment politically or historically. Merely nit picking will lead to nothing.
I expect every reader to know a bit about history and not regard my comment as the ultimate detailed information. It is more complex and there are more details than that. I would expect everyone to know that we all were Indians when India was undivided.

Do not give me a lecture on people who suffered during partition because my own grand parents and great grand parents were victims of it and we've heard enough stories of how pathetically Hindus are currently treated in Pakistan( hindu girls are raped and forced to convert, kidnapped and married to Muslims at tender ages). My father has always craved to go his place of birth but till date has not been able to. He has waited all his life to do so but that day has not come and will never come. I am secular and hate divides, forceful conversions, racism, luring people to other religions manipulatively ....why? because my father is a hindu and my mother is a Christian.

And yes, we all know about the Indian muslims who chose to stay behind and not be part of Pakistan or what it stood for. You know why...because they knew they will never be able to progress in Pakistan and they know and we all know how well treated they are in India, they've had EQUAL opportunities to progress and grow...example: Abdul Kalam and many more.

And why are you imagining that Pakistanis will feel alienated? They are in their own country and we are in our own. They have their issues to resolve and so do we. Regarding Indian muslims, please don't even start a fire by instilling fear in Muslims that they might be alienated or whatever. We have enough things to take care of.




Pakistan was created by those people who did not want to be part of India, did not stand by India ideologies or did want to follow secularism

Pakistan was created by those people who did not want to be part of India, did not stand by India ideologies, beliefs, principles or did want to follow secularism or true democracy. They wanted their own identity and that's that. Therefore we should leave them alone, respect their space and decision. They are not interested extending the hand of friendship with us. If their government even makes an attempt, majority of their citizens feel threatened because they feel they shall loose their identity or whatever their inbuilt insecurities are. It's intricate and tough. Indirectly we suffer time and again.

And to think of it, one cannot push a friendship or impose a friendship, it will happen when it is destined. We need to look out for ourselves, our growth , our people, our soldiers who have sacrificed their valuable lives in the few wars that we've had while defending us, protecting us from our hostile neighbor( who attacked us)

We have wasted our precious 60 plus years of post-independence in protecting ourselves on the border and inside our own country. Our resources and energies have been channelized on fighting terrorism and defending ourselves in wars--unfortunately. Look where China is, and their recent outstanding performance at the Olympics. They had a point and proved it. We too can achieve that ...but alas...only when we find time to concentrate on what we ought to. I hope so and pray.
We have the brains to do so, Indians in USA have displayed their extraordinary skills when given an opportunity;;why can't we all together make India again the land of opportunity--the way it was thousands of years ago, that attracted the invaders in the first place.

Kaffir,

Yes, they also love our Amitabh Bachchan, Lata Mangeskar , Hritik Roshsan, SRK, Kareena etc . Nusrat Fateh ali Khan was welcomed in India with open arms and loved and adored and still does after his death. I listen to Junoon too. I am glad that they found their platform in India that amplified their success and fame. Good for them.

Sam: That was hardly a lecture. You seem to be over-reacting to practically everything anybody has to say about any statement you make. I can understand how angry one feels following a terrorist attack but in a discussion it is important not take things so personally. I will try one last time to make my view clear. I am not speaking about the Muslims in India. I am referring to a broader world-view. Nations such as Pakistan, Afghanistan, Bangladesh, all have Muslims living in extreme poverty. Lack of education and opportunities makes these people susceptible to those who run religious schools. Their only access to information is through these people. These organizations give them a sense of belonging and thus brew young men who are raised to believe that the enemy is the rich neighbor who is doing better than them. It is almost like a systematic brain-washing. This issue as has been demonstrated by the indiscriminate attacks of the terrorists. They targeted everyone, Indians, Americans, Jews, Brits and so on. This is a global issue. The reason India was targeted is because security in Western nations has now been raised post-9-11. Bombay, in spite of previous attacks, is very vulnerable.

I just read Suketu Mehta's article and I thought it was on the spot. If one is raised in a certain religious environment to believe that something is wrong, sinful, they believe that they are eradicating evil when they push the trigger:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/29/opinion/29mehta.html?_r=1&ref=opinion

If there is a bleak possibility of GENUINE friendship and trust and cooperation in eliminating terrorism like Aditi, Chandra and many others have expressed "that we can hope that Pakistan will comply with investigations", then why not oblige to India's request and hand over Dawood Ibrahim for starters please... didn't his daughter marry some Pakistani cricketer's daughter?

It's straight and clear..hand over Dawood Ibrahim who is an Indian terrorist seeking refuge in Pakistan, aided in Pakistan and residing in Pakistan.

A couple of interesting points I picked up from Richard Miller

1. In Al Qaeda's world, if a tree falls with no video feed, the tree never fell. Car bombs and suicide bombers had begun to bore the target audiences, so common have they become; besides, they're over quickly and at best dominate a single headline in only one news cycle. But a three-day takeover of a prominent financial district generates many headlines over many news cycles. In the jihadis' world, that's a cause worth dying -- and killing -- for

2. As its leaders are "droned" to hell by Predators, what can the organization (Al Qaeda)do to restore its "public" credibility with the "root cause" appeasement class in the West and fellow jihadis everywhere? Right now, Al Qaeda is limited to its own "neighborhood" for this kind and scope of violence.

SD,

Okay so you are talking about narrow-minded Muslim religious schools and the consequences of being taught wrong things in those religious schools and the students of those religious schools come and attack India--supposedly the rich county that they are jealous of.

Okay agreed...

Once again, India is in a situation that it has to defend and protect and channelize its resources and energies in these activities. How unfortunate!!
But we have to do this and there is no choice.

However, I don't think we can even think of even having an idea or entertaining a thought of curtailing the violent education being given in those schools in the countries you mentioned. Get realistic buddy...

This is my view.

Chandra ? is that YOU????
well written
Jai Hind

Making Chidambaram the home minister instead of Shivraj Patil shows that UPA government has nobody to take responsibility.

IM

Chidambaram has made a turkey out of Indian economy. He should have been relieved from his current portfolio - but in stead, he seems to be rewarded with one more turkey left behind by Patil. Only thing that can save UPA from doom is war on Pakistan - it can create an image make-over for congress.

First and foremost, my sincere condolences to those killed or injured in subject attacks.

Chandra, Your essay addresses the tactical objectives but ignores the strategic goals of the extremists on the universal scale; an Islamic led world. Why do Muslim terrorist attack anywhere? Yes, the foot soldiers more often than not come from poverty, but the leadership and backers of terror are mostly men with means.

I have read some of the subject articles here at DC. Talented authors all. But IMHO the analysis falls short of identifying the root cause. The fact is this; there is us, and them. There are those who would saw your head off on national television for no other reason than being an "infidel"...and there are those on the other side of the fence that cannot think is such terms. Even if some enormously big-brained critic came up with the silver bullet identifying the cause(s), it wouldn't matter in the least to terrorists. All the understanding and empathetically applied logic mankind can muster will not make one iota of difference to these people. I'm not talking about the brainwashed fools blowing up themselves and the innocent; I'm referring to the hardcore clerics and terrorist leaders who perpetuate jihad in the name of (insert cause here).

Your best defense is offense. Do not tolerate terrorism or those who tolerate it within their borders. At the end of the day, you, your children, and grandchildren have two choices; seek out and destroy the terrorist and those who perpetuate it. Or keep feeding the alligator and hope it eats you last.

Again, my heartfelt sympathies to everyone at DC who has suffered.

Ciao, Guido

Guido

Thanks for putting it in plain and simple words. It is like a breath of fresh air in a smoked house of muddled thinking we see everywhere in the aftermath.

Guido,

Brilliant! It is amazing nobody else has thought of this Readers Digesty solution ie. "crush the bad guys!". Now that you have found the simple solution that has evaded everyone, no doubt we will all live in peace. Amen!

Guido,

Sorry. You are right and actually your hero Bush did use this "good guys vs. bad guys" aproach and look what a success his policies have been.

Guido, unfortunately is right.

Your best defense is offense. Do not tolerate terrorism or those who tolerate it within their borders. At the end of the day, you, your children, and grandchildren have two choices; seek out and destroy the terrorist and those who perpetuate it. Or keep feeding the alligator and hope it eats you last.

Unfortunately, the Americans did not engage in this policy at all. They attacked Iraq, instead of their real enemy, Saudi Arabia. No surprise - The Bush family is nothing but a bunch of head-waiters to the ibn-Sauds.

Had they cut the Wahhabi snake off at its head, it is very likely that this attack on Mumbai would not have occurred - the amount of money needed to train the terorists who struck the city would not have been available because the Wahhabi influenced madrassas that trained a lot of these terrorists would not have had the Saudi oil money to use for education or weapons or war.

Deatroying the Taliban would have been easier because once the money for the madrassas in Pakistan had dried up, the training ground for the Taliban would have also been gone.

But American banks and businessmen made a deal with the devil, the Wahhabi, and now the world has to pay, and the death toll has been high.

maybe the "good guys vs. bad guys", as in kill all the bad guys approach might have some merit. on the other hand, a recent article by Aditi Nadkarni, _A Cancer Researcher at the Scene_ posted just today on DC, might, just might, offer another perspective, just as food for thought if nothing more.

CS

I hope you are not upset that Indian commandos killed all the bad guys in Mumbai.

Nobody in their right (or even wrong mind) would argue that it is good to not to deal with the "bad guys". this is a truism that need not be argued over. but if this were all there was to it, the issue would have been resolved a long time ago, the world would only be full of the "good guys", so to speak.

Shame on Kerala CM Achuthanandan
My heart bleeds for Martyr Sandeep's father...

And on the other hand the unaffected Deshmukh( another CM) goes on a filmi stroll to taj with his son Ritesh and Ram gopal varma. So much for reality.

These are the leaders we have in our country who have passed such derogatory unimaginable remarks and conducted themselves in the most insensitive matter.

Sam

I do not agree with criticism of Kerela CM. He was not paying homage to a person. He was seeking to pay homage to a man in uniform. Nation has a right to pay homage to the man slain in uniform and the father of this person can not deny that just because the person happens to be his son. I think that father merely belittled his son, his service to the nation. He did not have problem with Karnataka CM paying the homage. Than why single out Kerela CM? I think the father played his personal politics while nation viewed his son's demise as national event.

Similarly, Mrs Karkare refused the financial help offered by Gujarat Government. If you recall, Modi had announced Rs 1 crore to families of slain police officers. Once again, the help was from government to men in uniform - it was not from Modi, it was from Gujarat government, it was not to Karkare, a person, but it was to a man in uniform that served government. Mrs Karkare chose to belittle it and demean the uniform.

Kerty,

You have a point....it makes me want to re-think. Thanks for sharing this information.

would you have any idea why the father met with Karnataka CM but not Keralas?

Finally India is putting pressure on Pakistan to hand over Dawood and Masood. If Rice and McCain in India and the world watching Pakistan, Pakistan surely is under the fire....lets wait and watch.

Lakshar terrorist that were arrested in Feb 08 in UP when interrogated, confessed that there were ongoing plans by their group to carry out attacks on Taj, Mumbai. This information was sent by UP police to Mumbai but the Mumbai police did not pay heed to it .....
(this is as per the Aaj tak news today)

chandra:
""The last few attacks during the year have come from inside. A lot of this in retaliation to the violence in Gujarat and perceived ill-treatment of muslims.""

yes, mumbai train blast killed many gujaratis, also claimed the same. Ahmedabad bomb blast also claimed the same, every shit that happen also claimed as the reason for gujarath riots.

But why the hell that gujarat riots happened. You people forget that. After that much brutal riot in gujarat, why narendra modi became CM with great majority. I don't know why the so-called heroes never recognize the gujarat riots as the hindu's answer to moslems as "If you do godra, this is the way we get back to you".

No, we never do that. Of course need not to do that. killing people never give any answer to root problem. Then why not the same applicable here. If gujarat's riots not justifiable, how mumbai attack justifiable.

Then what hindu's need to do for these bomb attacks...?

I think the whole country has become hysterical since these attacks. The media channels are largely responsble for this. The fucking NDTV and IBN channels are finding ways to protect the UPA Govt from getting whacked in the assembly elections. The media has been a even bigger disaster than security forces.....shameful