Teenage Girls Buried Alive in Pakistan

You know, Ashish, this honor killing stuff is very common in my neck of the woods. Since this story appeared, I've waited to see a comment on it. I've looked at it three times since it came out. And nobody, but nobody, has seen fit to say anything. And that disgusts me.

This is not mere murder: this is barbarism - period.

There. The word is on the CRT screen for you all to see. It would be barbarism if it took place in Sh'khém, in Jerusalem, in Amman - or, as in this case, Baluchistan.

ruvy, many of us have read it and are disgusted but there is nothing to say. yes we can all talk about moral outrage and how barbaric the practice is, but in the end I think a lot of us are fatigued of simply commenting "ya that sucks"

I said nothing because in the end, I had to chalk it up to one more thing in this world that is horrifying and I have absolutely no power to control.

Silence in the face of evil is assent. 'nuff said.

uh, this is not the face of evil. this was a story about evil. there are reports about evil every day, ruvy, do you respond personally to each and every one?

The article itself is not the face of evil, smallsquirrel. That is the kind of taqqiya I expect from other people here on this list, not you. The content of the article - what Ashish describes and condemns in it - is evil, and barbarism, to boot. One would think that you were intelligent enough to understand that. And silence in the face of evil and barbarism is assent. That is implied in the Bible in Leviticus, and is the basis for much of what Jews take pride in as a "social conscience".

Have you forgotten the silence of the world when six million of out brothers and sisters were murdered off? Or has your sickening political correctness erased even that moral lesson from your mind, madame?

SS: Amazing patience! Am astounded and awestruck.

Ruvy: I am sure that no one on this board thinks that killings are acceptable. It just seems that you like cherry picking your Biblical teachings: so are happy to take a completely literalist, fundamentalist stance when it suits you while coolly ignoring the bits that are inconvenient.

If indeed you take the Bible quite as literally, I assume you will accept that a fair number of practices included in the Torah are pretty "evil" and "barbaric." Or does the value judgement just flow in one direction (as usual)?

Anamika,

I don't take Torah "literally" - the fundies do. But leaving all that aside, you can rage and scream about the theoretical punishments prescribed in the Torah for sin. I don't mind. Jump up and down, blow your gasket if you want; have a goyisher good time. Theoretical barbarism produces no dead bodies, no funerals and does not have the ugly stink of real barbarism - which Ashish has written about. And do note, your government has done nothing about it.

More to the point, until I spoke up, there was silence on the board. The Desi government reflects the Desi public from which it arises. Silence in the face of evil is assent, dear lady. I expect smallsquirrel to know that. I don't expect you to.

Have a bowl of cherries, Anamika. Would you like cream? sugar? A spot of tea? By the time you're done, you'll feel as right as rain.

ruvy, I do not appreciate your judgement. it's way off base. this is nothing like standing mute in the face of a holocaust. do you actually beleive that simply posting "that is sick shit" is worthwhile and does ANYTHING to stop what is happening? You have NOT ONE EFFING CLUE what I do in my spare time, and whether or not I work to actually stop injustice rather than being a dime-a-dozen armchair critic.

Please. Social conscience comes not from pointing to something and simply saying "awwwww, what a pity" It comes from DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

You have no earthly idea what the Indian government has or has not done to curb anything. You might want to look into it before you go getting all high and mighty on the subject.

And by the way, what are you personally doing to say, stop the spread of AIDS in South Africa? Or are you only concerned about subjects which demonize Muslims?

smallsquirrel,

You are right - I do not know what you do in your spare time. I can only discern your actions or views from what I see here, and cannot presume to know how you spend your time. And I do not.

But if I can do nothing else, I can write - even if it is only a comment condemning the premature murder of a young girl. In this case, that is all I can do.

And I have done it. As for what the government has done, I rely on the word of the author, Ashish.

I bid you a good Sabbath, smallsquirrel.

In India most urban areas have women organizations where abused women can get help. Its in our villages where help does not get in time. Ultimately its women themselves who together as a reckoning force have to rise against these archaic practices and say no more!!

Deepti: There are a grassroots initiatives in the rural areas as well, although not as many as one would like/want. But as education and empowerment reaches the rural areas, so does the ability to resist and prevent such violence.

Ruvy - back on that soapbox again, aren't you? You seem really fast to jump to judgement on stuff you know zip about. And when challenged, you spew your usual hyper-aggressive settler nonsense (#7).

And yes, editors, do edit the above spade being called a spade if necessary but frankly this sort of self-righteous, hyper-aggressive rhetoric is symptomatic of the very REAL violence that is carried out by Zionists (especially settlers) in the occupied territories!

Fortunately at DC, we only get the virtual version of this particular brand of violence! I wonder when THAT violence shall be condemned as "barbaric" and the "face of evil"?

sorry ruvy but I see almost no difference between a passing comment on a discussion board and doing nothing. honestly. both amount to a gnat's fart unless they lead to action.

I have worked for many womens' organizations, in many different venues, in many differen countries, in many different ways. and I continue to do so. I am still very active in working to improve the lives of women in India.

what have you done to improve the condition of women in ANY country?

if nothing, then stop being so horrified. if you really cared you would stop yakking and start doing.

I'm a bit confused - why would the INDIAN government try to do anything in the case referred to in the article, given that its taking place in PAKISTAN!? Or are we now doing the American or Israeli thing of extra-territorial enforcement of justice?

why would the INDIAN government try to do anything in the case referred to in the article, given that its taking place in PAKISTAN!?

Ask smallsquirrel. I refer you to her words "You have no earthly idea what the Indian government has or has not done to curb anything."

She's right. I don't. And as you rightly point out, it is the government of Pakistan that needs to do something. Explain that to the young lady, would you?

She is too busy defending barbarism to listen to sense.

As a matter of fact, smallsquirrel, I wrote and successfully lobbied to pass legislation to prevent Minnesota insurance companies from discriminating against insuring women who had contracted cancer from a drug their mothers had taken to "ease the pregnancy". It's not much, built I managed to have the Minnesota Legislative Code changed. I leave you to look up the details of the drug if you so desire. I've forgotten the name of it myself and arrogant comments like yours don't rate me bothering to look it up for you. If it serves me, I will, and mention it on my CV. Right now, I have more important things to do.

I'd wish you a good week - but frankly you don't rate that either.

the hell? you went after me, ruvy. I simply defended myself from your accusations. then you get mad at me?

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and let's be very, very clear. I never defended barbarism. that is simply hyperbole. argue fairly please.

I was finished with all I had to say here at comment #3. I regret having wasted another word - on you, or anyone else.

I believe Ruvy is right. Exposing acts of barbarism is a form of acting. In my sheltered existence, I had not heard of the case described by Ashish. While I may not go to Pakistan to protest, I will let others know. World wide knowledge may eventually bring about the desired effect.

As far as smallsquirrel's contention that doing physical things is all that counts, I will put my career in women's causes against hers. To repeat, letting the world know is important.

As far as not being worth a gnat's fart, what has been the total worth of smallsquirrel's 5 comments?

Cathy:

""As far as not being worth a gnat's fart""

incredible imagery!

cathy... is there a point to your comment about me? this is not a contest dear. you need to understand some history in various discussions before you go pointing the finger. There is a reason that I said what I did and Ruvy said what he did. Do try to keep up if you're going to take sides unnecessarily. Plus you've mistaken my comments on top of it all.

I am very happy that you have a career in womens' causes, but what is with the judgmental attitude?