Fiction: Dreading Ugly Girls

One of the best stories I've read in a long while.

Dear Chai,

Very well written. You certainly have a way with words.

Regards,

Ravi Kulkarni

very good story.

giving someone false hope is very cruel. its better to be direct and tell them straight away that youre not attractive enough for modelling. or i dont find you attractive enough for dating / relationship.

i dont know why people do that. guys do that to girls and girls do that to guys "i never looked at you that way....youre just a very good freind"

Well Anand, he didnt give her false hope. He was just a different person around her- like Dr Jekyll and Mr Hide

Deepti, I appreciate your compliment :-) I don't think it's a Jekyll and Hide scenario. That would be seeing it in black and white. It was a grey area where it's hard to seperate your personal life from your professional life.

Ravi, Thanks for the compliment ! :-)

Anand, Sometimes it's not that easy to be brutally honest in a professional setup. Especially to people who come to Mumbai from all across the country hoping to make it big. Just because I can't do something for someone doesn't mean nobody else can do it. I've worked with models who were rejected by other agencies. It just depends on the kind of work you keep getting.

I don't understand why people feel the other person wants to get into a relationship just because he is polite to you.

"My soul always disappeared on that floor."

Beautifully written Chai! You explore an interesting issue. I it is a guess a direct spin-off from the last debate on scoring. The contribution of prettiness (I will not say beauty, because that is a deeper word and implies lot more) in the attraction quotient.

My opinion is that being pretty/handsome is not enough to attract the opposite sex. Attraction is about a lot of things. Many people who are not conventionally attractive (I will not use the word ugly, because again I think like beauty it has implications that are more than skin deep), find many conventionally good looking people attracted to them. It is the X factor. But, what comes out in your story is that constant rejection because you don't fall into the conventional parameters of beauty can take away any future chance at being attractive. It takes away the opportunity for that X factor to develop. Not all human being step into their adulthood with the X factor. Many develop it over time. You might have noticed that many times, a classmate who was completely unimpressive in school and blossomed into a very interesting individual. It's a matter of opportunity.

As far as taking sympathy for interest, that is a personality thing I would day. There are many people who take interest for sympathy!

Ritu, This story isn't a spin-off from my previous post. A friend asked me last week if I'd click her snaps since her dad wanted to "distribute" them. I remembered this incident and immediately agreed :-) Then I thought I'd write about it.

As far as the X factor is concerned, this girl had it. But nobody was willing to see it and I feel even she wasn't/ didn't make any attempt to show it either. As you said, it's a matter of opportunity.

And she was rejected at the end not for her looks, but just because the guy wasn't interested in the institution of marriage ! ;-)

"As far as taking sympathy for interest, that is a personality thing I would day. There are many people who take interest for sympathy!" Didn't quite get that ! (ignorance regretted)

It is a nice story. I ended up feeling very sorry for the protagonist...the guy of course. It must be awful to go through life letting the chill of commercialism and stale stereotypes get in the way of such amorphous forms of human perception as beauty and attraction.

I am not sure if the consensus on love has changed but aren't there plenty of girls a guy would find beautiful/ attractive and still not want to marry?

If so then in my opinion the protagonist could've simply dodged all the haunting emotion of having hurt this girl by simply admitting that while she definitely was talented and pretty he just didn't see her as anything other than a friend. A lot of girls do it to "loser boys", no? :)

I wish there were like a sequel to "Dreading Ugly Girls" called "Getting Over Hopelessly Shallow Men" :))

Aditi, "aren't there plenty of girls a guy would find beautiful/ attractive and still not want to marry?". Yeah that's because the guys have an inferiority complex or a fear of being overshadowed by their spouse in future. Or at times it's not the "right time" to marry. I don't want to be a spokesman for guys but I think these are some of the reasons :-)

"A lot of girls do it to "loser boys" Why do you want to make friends with losers ? Duh ! ;-)

As far as your suggestion for the sequel is concerned, Aishwarya Rai could use that for the title of her autobiography !

Chai: "Why do you want to make friends with losers ? Duh ! ;-)"

I don't. I was not referring to myself. A "lot of girls" did not include me. So I couldn't answer your question.

Secondly, saying "I think of you only as a friend" is not supposed to be taken literally.

it usually means "Not interested" :) Spares everybody the haunting woes.

Chaitanya and Aditi,

You might think of someone as a loser, while that person may be the world to another human.

Aditi, going by your always sensible posts and comments, your defending yourself [i](I don't. I was not referring to myself. A "lot of girls" did not include me. So I couldn't answer your question)[/i] is totally unlike you. I was surprised you didn't ask him to define "loser". And even then, what's wrong with making friends with losers? You can't go about life trying to find people who are winners. And we're all losers and winners in different areas of our lives, so which part should be the criteria for being judged as a loser or winner?

SidDes: "You might think of someone as a loser, while that person may be the world to another human". I totally agree with you on that. It's a personal choice on how you feel like classifying somebody.

There are quite a few people who consider me a loser for the way I lead my life. It's their opinion and I don't want to contest it. To each his own.

As for making friends with "winners or losers" is again a personal choice. I make friends with people in whose company I feel comfortable in. To me all my friends are "winners".

If you want my definition of a loser, it's "someone whom I can not appreciate for a certain reason". It's a subjective term for me and something which has never even crossed my mind before it was brought up here in previous threads.

SiDes: Firstly thank you (for the sensible posts comment). Secondly, did you notice that my comment "loser boys" was in quotes? That comment was meant to be sarcastic and in criticism of girls who do that to guys by conveniently citing them as "losers". It was not in criticism of the guys at all hence the word "loser" is in quotes. There are girls who will drop a man like a hot potato after stringing him along for years under the "friend" tag. And if he doesn't meet their standards he's tagged a "loser" just like in this story the girl who doesn't meet the protagonist's (very unrealistic) standards is tagged "ugly. And in all honesty, I am not one of those girls. Otherwise I wouldn't have been sarcastic about their tactics.

Sometimes my sarcasm is just a little too subtle but I was hoping someone would see the quotes around "loser boys" :)

Aditi,

My bad. I just read the "Why don't you make friends with losers?" post.

The sensible post thing obviously still stands, and most of the jokes, hints and sarcasm thrown by you ladies is way too subtle for the average guy :-)

Next time, maybe hit me on me on the head with a club!

Dear all,

Whom we consider attractive is not only molded by the nature, but also by the society in which we grow up. At least in some of the cases, we don't really have a choice, it is just the chemistry or the popularity of the person in question. Once the initial attraction settles to a more mundane feeling of companionship, other factors such as the "X" factor come into play.

Having been on both sides of the "loser" equation, I am unable to decide which feeling is worse: a rejection by a possible suitor or rejecting someone. Both of these always remain in one's life. The X factor could be how good a person feels about oneself. Even a very "attractive" person may fade in my eyes if she doesn't feel good about herself and it shows in her behavior. Character does play a very important role, and perhaps one can see that in the choices that more mature adults (in their 30s and 40s) do.

Regards,

Ravi

chaitanya :"And she was rejected at the end not for her looks, but just because the guy wasn't interested in the institution of marriage "

not being physically attracted is a VALID and SUFFICEINT reason to reject someone for marriage/relationship. there is not need to defend his decision.

"Aditi, "aren't there plenty of girls a guy would find beautiful/ attractive and still not want to marry?". Yeah that's because the guys have an inferiority complex or a fear of being overshadowed by their spouse in future. "


i totally disagree. infact the truth is that men, more so than women, MAKE SURE that they marry a woman they find physically attractive. i dont want to generalize things but its common to see men married to women significantly more attractive than themselves and rare to see the other way round.

i think this fear of being over shadowed by a more beautiful/attractive spouse is more common amongst women. women dont want to marry a guy who is too goodlooking or is more attractive then themselves. they want to play safe and marry a less risky guy.

though i think a lot of men have a fear of marrying a woman who is too succeful career wise.

Hi Aditi, The standards were realistic since they were set for models for a print shoot. In the modeling industry, the client sets the standards and we just execute the request :-)

His personal choice (not so rigid) was a vague "good looking". This again I feel is a realistic expectation since it's a subjective term.

Hi Ravi, I don't think society plays as significant a role in our selection process as compared to our nature. Society only reacts to it based on pre set norms.

I agree a person loses his edge if he does not feel good about himself. But altering a person's perception about himself isn't too difficult.

Anand: "not being physically attracted is a VALID and SUFFICEINT reason to reject someone for marriage/relationship".

I totally agree with you. It's a personal choice and everyone has a right to have his/her own priorities in making a selection. Such priorities should be respected.

As far as how men/women select each other, we can not thumb down one particular reason. There are various permutations and combinations.

Chaitanya: "The standards were realistic since they were set for models for a print shoot. In the modeling industry, the client sets the standards and we just execute the request"

With all due respect to your experience in the modeling industry, when one sees voluptuous and dusky models like Bipasha Basu, Sameera Reddy who ooze sex appeal and yet don't fit the fair/ slim criteria, the layman's opinion is that these seemingly stereotypical criteria would then be obsolete in current times (unless of course your client is Fair & Lovely).

Also my comment about "unrealistic standards" was not about the protagonist's professional decisions but his appraisal of this girl in lieu of this narration:

""Maybe she's had a fight with her boyfriend", I said to myself. Immediately a voice from within smirked, "Do you really think she will have a boyfriend. I mean look at her. I wouldn't date her if she was the last woman on this planet".

Thats not only a bit much, it is also a reflection of how much of the "modeling agency runner" of his personality is infiltrating this poor shallow man's personal life. Lets face it, how many of us look at a friend who may not even be that fortunate looking and think on these lines when they are sitting in front of us distraught?

In present times people are no more ugly. They are only cosmetically challenged. And it is okay for a guy to think in terms of client needs when at work. But during a conversation with a distressed friend on a terrace if all he can see is "pudgy dusky features" then his standards are definitely unrealistic not to mention callous.

The problem I had with the story is that there isn't a connection between all these pieces and angles. This modeling agency guy has a friend who is not a looker and he refuses a marriage proposal from her because he is not ready for the institution of marriage. Like Dee said, I too thought it would be a Jekyll & Hyde scenario but you clarified that is not what it was. I was left feeling a little disconnected wondering why the protagonist should be haunted when he refused a marriage proposal for genuine and perfectly acceptable reasons.

Aditi, It is interesting you came up with Bipasha and Sameera's example. Bipasha started of as a ramp model. She started getting print shoots after she became a film star. Films and modeling are 2 different worlds, though for a layman they appear to be similar. Nobody approaches a modeling agency for a Bipasha or a Sameera. They come for new faces.

Also you can count such dusky/ voluptous models on your fingertips. There are always exceptions to the rule. And again how many actually find them attractive is again a subjective thing.

If you read my response to Anand's post, I said that different agencies get different kind of work. This agency got assignments for a certain look most of the times as you can tell from the story.

And the protogonist was shallow. So the "pudgy features" quip just highlight that character. The boyfriend part was to bring forth that character. But I wouldn't rule out it may not cross someone's subconscious mind considering what he was thinking off just a few seconds ago.

The guy is haunted because it pained him to crush someone's hopes. It pained when he did it numerous times on a professional level (which he could overcome) and personally for the first time (which he could not overcome). Marriage or beauty had nothing to do with the final pain.

"Also you can count such dusky/ voluptous models on your fingertips. There are always exceptions to the rule. And again how many actually find them attractive is again a subjective thing"

I have a feeling this may also be an Indian fashion versus international thing. I agree with you on one count though: it is definitely subjective. Personally I find jewelry, clothes, make up and especially lingerie etc seem enhanced when the model's fair skin isn't washing everything out with the paleness.

Duskier skin in international fashion seems like it is more sought after what with some of the beautiful centerfolds taken by Somalian and Hispanic models.

Indian fashion I'm sure is still slave to well-established stereotypes and will be for years to come. The fair-slim paradigm is definitely getting boring though...a lot of film stars are getting tanned to a grotesque orange is what I have noticed. :) I wonder if a change is coming.

On those lines I found this article interesting:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Lifestyle/Wellness/Beauty/The_dark_taboo/articleshow/3196129.cms

Aditi, The article does provide some encouragement and shows that the industry is moving in the right direction. I'll believe the Indian market has finally transcended the "color barrier" only when a dusky family on tv will be advertising home appliances :-)

For the products which you mentioned, either of the skin tones would look good. It just depends on the way the pictures are shot.

c:

have read the story and the comments and am still ambivalent...

the first sentence in the last paragraph left a bad taste...

and the last word made it all extremely ambivalent.


The guy is haunted because it pained him to crush someone's hopes....there are ways to convey a disinterest....especially after those efforts to regain her self confidence

the protagonist could have eased out her "spontaneous" proposal with a "you would be a ideal catch dear but am spoken for"

khair, just some thoughts....

aditi.. yeah and I have two words for you...

SALMA HAYEK

Chai: "when a dusky family on tv will be advertising home appliances :-)"

Hey I hear the Devgan family might be doing just that!

SS: Love Salma Hayek!

If we are speaking strictly about fashion modeling then some of the biggest names in the fashion industry are Tyra Banks and Naomi Campbell. Giselle Bundchen, the Brazilian supermodel is known for her tanned skin tone. And a lot of male friends have told me that Iman is one of the most beautiful supermodels they have seen.

What is it with these Somali beauties!!...their skin just glows. They look gorgeous. I have never been or ever will be envious of an emaciated size zero fair Kareena Kapoor but watching some of these glowing Somali supermodels with their perfect cheekbones, striking eyes and radiant skin makes me burn with jealousy during those "mirror moments" we women have on some days :)

yep. I forget a lot of the models names besides alek wek, but some of the most most most gorgeous ones are out of africa. there are a couple ethiopian women who blow most of the rest out of the water. and there is a woman I had seen in a lot of runway shows, she has recently come out against female circumcision because of her own experience in north africa... my god, she is one of the top 5 most beautiful women in the world. and yep, somalis... something about the high cheekbones and rich deep skintones. very hard to match that kind of natural beauty.

SS & Aditi, I love Salma Hayek. Absolutely fell in love with her after watching her for the first time in a 2 bit role in 54 !

I don't like Naomi too much, but Tyra rocks. In India most of the top models like Sheetal, Fleur, Carol are dusky. As I said in the post, if you have the right body, dusky girls are taken for the catwalk.

Too bad the industry was "fair obsesessed" when I was in it a few years ago. Caused a lot of heart burn to a lot of people.
Temp, It was supposed to be ambivalent. I wanted the end to be curt and abrupt without taking sides. But thanks for the input :-)

i think sometimes people take this 'beauty is in the eye of beholder' thing too far.

NOT being anorexic and fair is being used as a scapegoat and an explanation for not being attractive "hey im not developing an eating disorder just to look attractive for them".....(bitch...the problem is not that youre NOT anorexic but that youre butt ugly!!)

awwight. so the thing is that people dont realize that physical attractiveness is about primary things like proportions.

the head size to body size ratio.
the facial structure/ shape
the shape of the head

then comes things like eyes, hair, nose, lips, dimples etc ...the facial features that is.




the fair anorexic girls we see as models had good proportions to start with. they had small head big bodies, their heads were ell shpaed, they had well defined facial features and shape, they were tall and had a good body strucutre. they then hose to be anorexic in order to conform to the modelling standards NOT the attractiveness standards.

if you dont have a good head size to body size ratio (head is kinda big and small body) and your facial structure isnt good and your body structure isnt good then try being anorexic and putting on tons of fair and lovely and see if you look attractive !

look at all the male models... smaller heads big broad bodies, good head shapes (not egg shaped)or big foreheads, look at their facial structures (not pudgy assymetric facial bones but well defined shapely faces) tall, etc.

you see skin colour just need not be in extremes. too white or too black. its just a secondary thing. attractiveness is about proportions and shapes.

if you have good proportions you can be petite, curvy, tanned, fair, anorexic, voluptous etc and be attractive. if you dont have good proportions then you look for excuses in your subconscious like im not anorexic.

anand, maybe you were trying to be funny in the beginning of your comment, but I found it in poor taste (your use of bitch). I have a feeling you were trying to sound campy, but to me it did not come off right.

just sayin.

also, yeah fine, but what you're saying also doesn't make any sense! now you want to criticize people about factors they have no control over? I cannot control my height, my head shape, and my proportions. even if I gain or lose weight, those things stay the same.

my whole issue is with the obsession with fair skin in India. I find it revolting. I was horrified to find "fair and lovely TEEN" on the market, making the youth of India feel inferior to their european counterparts. all the bollywood vids now feature eastern europeans, who simply cannot get the dance moves quite right, and to me they all look cheap as hell. and this is coming from a firang.

The height of it all ended up being something I benefitted from myself, but ambivalently so. I have a desi friend who is a professional model. Her agency told her they needed a baby the age of mine for an ad. Apparently they had cast a hot ukrainian model for the mom, and did the casting call for the baby in Bangalore. They were shocked when on camera the mother and baby were not believable together. So my daughter got the chance to star in an India-wide ad campaign, but I left feeling crappy that an Indian company felt the need to use foreign models in its ads for baby products.

anand, maybe you were trying to be funny in the beginning of your comment, but I found it in poor taste (your use of b**ch). I have a feeling you were trying to sound campy, but to me it did not come off right.

just sayin.

also, yeah fine, but what you're saying also doesn't make any sense! now you want to criticize people about factors they have no control over? I cannot control my height, my head shape, and my proportions. even if I gain or lose weight, those things stay the same.

my whole issue is with the obsession with fair skin in India. I find it revolting. I was horrified to find "fair and lovely TEEN" on the market, making the youth of India feel inferior to their european counterparts. all the bollywood vids now feature eastern europeans, who simply cannot get the dance moves quite right, and to me they all look cheap. and this is coming from a firang.

The height of it all ended up being something I benefitted from myself, but ambivalently so. I have a desi friend who is a professional model. Her agency told her they needed a baby the age of mine for an ad. Apparently they had cast a hot ukrainian model for the mom, and did the casting call for the baby in Bangalore. They were shocked when on camera the mother and baby were not believable together. So my daughter got the chance to star in an India-wide ad campaign, but I left feeling crappy that an Indian company felt the need to use foreign models in its ads for baby products.

Anand: "attractiveness is about proportions and shapes". You are absolutely correct. :-)

I understand you have been brutally honest (and off the record, maybe you are correct on most counts). But sometimes it's better to keep the bitter truth under wraps since it may tend to offend a lot of people. So the truth does more harm than good.

Peace !

SS: Thank you for bringing forth the sorry state of our modeling industry with your example. Unfortunately most of us still suffer from a colonial hangover. The usual brief for a child model is "FAIR, chubby & cute". It's hard when a dusky kid with absolutely angelic features comes to your office. I feel more for the parents than the child.

As far as Anand's comments are concerned, I think he is laying more emphasis on proportions rather than skin tone. For photoshoots the skin tone takes a back seat and facial features play an important part since lighting and makeup can adjust the skin tones.

smallsquirrel

i used the word bitch because you hear totally unattractive girls (no sin) BITCHin about not being anorexic and fair and thus unattractive.
i have nothing against them personally.

secondly i am not criticising unattractive people. what made you say that. if they cant change their head shape/size, face structure, height and body structure then so what? they should know that physical attractiveness depends more on these factors rather than on being thin and fair and losing some weight from your abs. do you like people being tricked by ads that show them they will become beauty contest winners by using their abs workout machine, fairness creme or shampoo etc ??
if im just telling this truth doesnt mean im critising people. and since you are so against this 'fairness' craze yourself you should be agreeing with this ! im trying to bust this fairness/thinness = attractiveness myth.

I wrote this a while back. Though not everything in it is relevant to topic at hand, it has few relevant observations and myth-busters. So here it goes..

As people often claim that the beauty is in the eyes of beholder. But seriously, why is that so? If it is really that beautiful, everybody should be able to behold it and agree that it is indeed beautiful. If one has to rely on the beholder and his/her subjectiveness to consider it beautiful, than it lacks that universality and objectivity and impartiality. If something is really beautiful, everybody should be able to see it as such.

As they say, every human being is inherently beautiful and worth loving. But seriously, is it really so? Than why we insist on laying conditions for loving a person? The whole notion of love marriage is that only certain person can be worthy of a person's love. If asked to marry an unknown person, most would cry foul 'but I don't know that person. How can I love and live with that person?'. We all have our conditions to like
and love a person.

God must be very partial to men. Men do not have to rely on outer beauty or inner beauty, plus even when they are past 50, we would be discussing who is hot and sexy and who is not. For women, outer beauty fade quickly, and by 40s, nobody talks about them as to who is hot and who is not. Women over 40 seldom make it to top-10 sexy women. New crop of beauties in their 20s are waiting in the wings to take center stage and upstage their predecessors.

As they say, beauty is only skin deep. But is it so really? Skin is all beauty has. And since skin is tied to age so much, women don't have too many years to fall back on outer beauty. Plus not all women are endowed with skin beauty - may be 1 or 2 out of 10 at the most may be blessed. Skin beauty is not universally endowed to all women. So for vast majority of women, their beauty rests in the eyes of the beholders. Thus needing to develop and fall back on inner beauty remains inescapable. But can we have top-1o hot list for inner beauty?
Because inner beauty too is in the eyes of beholder. Though eyes can't behold it. One has to experience it, feel it. Like a son sees in his
mother no matter how ugly or old she may look. Or what a guy may see in ugly looking wife even at age 50 and beyond. That means inner beauty is so individualized, it can not be felt by all. On the other hand, it is accessible to every person who seeks to achieve it. I guess that rules out inner beauty salons, inner beauty pageants, top 10 lists of inner beauties.

anand.. calm down guy... this is a discussion and you have to be able to roll with it.

you should know that women are not going to take kindly to a man calling a woman a bitch in basically any cirsumstance. there is a difference is saying that people are bitching (although it is a fine line) and then calling a woman a bitch. sorry if you do not get the distinction but I can guarantee you that you should not be surprised if people are offended by that term.

it could be a tone or language issue but to me it sounded like you were backing up the stereotypes and not criticizing them.

and sorry, you cannot hide behind "i'm just telling the truth." That is not an argument. it's a cop out.

if you are meaning to destroy the myth, I am not sure that your argument communicated that well. you really ended up blaming the people for not coming to terms with it. don't you think that is not exactly their fault. we have media that tells people that there is no excuse for being ugly or fat, so of course people look for excuses. your tone was one of "you are stupid if you make excuses because you cannot figure out that God made you ugly!" then you call them names.

So, can you see my point???

Anand: Thank you for clarifying your statements. I think you and SS are on the same plane now :-)

Kerty: Love your out of the box take on the whole thing ;-). As far as aging males and females are concerned, I feel it depends on the individual's lifestyle. So for every Mel Gibson there is a Hema Malini and for every Sean Connery there is a Maharani Gayatri Devi, who have aged gracefully. Unless you have any statistics or examples, it's hard to tell which gender ages any better than the other.

My take on your discussion about inner and outer beauty is that you call a person "good looking" if he/she is beautiful from the outside and "good natured" if he/she is beautiful from the inside.

smallsquirrel

ya i know i used the word bitch and now everythiong ive said makes no sense. i hate it when ppl act that way. even if youre being RATIONAL but you use a dirty word youre bullshitted by people.

ok what do you wanna hear.. SORRY. im SORRY for using the word bitch. i take it back.

anyways. you tell me then if its not about fairness and anorexia and its not about having good proportions then what is it about.
why does rationality hurt people so much. i assume youre a logical educated mature person why does it hurt you so much.

im not against people trying to imporve themselves with what they have. but why do you disagree if i say that proportions, facial structure and shape, head shape, body structure etc matter to attractiveness more than fairness and anorexia. and unfortunately these are also the things we cant change. whats the big ego issue or whats so threatenening about saying that? is it just like telling kids theres no santa?

you are being wishy washy here bcos according to you physical attractivenss is niether about being thin and fair or about prportions.
then what is it about? enlighten me.



P.s i would appreciate if you critisize my explanations rather than the dirty word i used or the fact that i wasnt CALM. seriously.

anand... to use a bad cliche... if you cannot take the heat, get out of the kitchen. this is a forum for discussion and debate. I did not attack you personally. you need to get over it.

Also, you did not appreciate my criticism of your explanation.

Amd for the record I am all for "dirty" words, dear.. check out some of my posts and/or comments. but the one you used was in poor taste.

[edited out the sentence here as a personal attack - T.S.]

smallsquirrel

you have critisized my explanation on only one basis ....that it hurts unattractive people.

small squirrel (# 38)

i never said that you attacked me personally.
but in the same post you did just that !

"grow up a wee bit before wearing the big boy pants "

WTF is that supposed to mean. not that i give a rats ass. you think youre too smart.

and then first you say "if you cant take the heat get out of the kitchen" and then utter "grow up a wee bit ..." to get a reaction so i really do get pissed and cant take the heat. not gonna happen. i can think rationally.

Anand, The editor seems to have snipped off the "personal attack" against you. So you can now stick to the topic of the post and continue airing your fascinating views.

SS, I've read your comments on other threads and I must say you do provide some interesting inputs.

Maybe you two could bury the hatchet and get back to what you do best ! :-) (Damn I'm sounding like a patronizing old fart and I LOVE it !)

I can only wholeheartedly second that sentiment Chaitanya S.

Other concerns regarding policy, please send to the editors, like myself, off-thread and we will respond.

Thank you both, all.

Temple

oh for the love of god.

anand, the last thing I will say to you is that you honestly need to learn how to read. this conversation is not going anywhere, so in order to not further derail conversation on the author's chosen topic I will bow out now.

for the record, I do not think I am too smart. I think you contradicted yourself and then did not feel like having a proper adult debate on what you had said. you clearly cannot take criticsm well and got defensive when I told you that the use of the word bitch in the context you used it was uncalled for. so if you can think rationally, maybe you might want to consider why "dirty" words (as you called them) are appropriate in some contexts and not in others.

so fine it wasnt appropriate... so what? that wasnt the issue anyways. so get over it. i was discussing PHYSICAL ATTACTIVENESS. (# 28)

objections anyone on my views on PHYSICAL ATTRACTIVENESS??

Well-written piece, but would flow better as a short story with some editing - for instance, you don't have to lay it all out for the reader. Shorten the sentences, and imply with imagery/ allusion, what you want to convey rather than straight-forward narration. Just a thgt....

Aditi said" And it is okay for a guy to think in terms of client needs when at work. But during a conversation with a distressed friend on a terrace if all he can see is "pudgy dusky features" then his standards are definitely unrealistic not to mention callous."

Well, I don't know about that. Sometimes, I do have similar thoughts about overweight friends, as I watch them complain about this and that. Nothing vicious, mind you...but nevertheless, it's there. I am sure they have their own set of running commentary about me (about this or that physical or personality attribute) as they watch me talk....It's human nature.

And "small head, big body" is good proportion? That is news to me cause runway/fashion models always seem to have huge heads and frail looking bodies - almost alien-like.

http://www.thelogicgirl.com

Hi LogicGirl, Thanks for the feedback :-) The length of the story is the last thing on my mind unless it's for a publication. I feel comfortable with my style of writing so I don't see myself shortening sentences or changing the style of narration in the near future. But I'm definitely not going to post anything this long in future on DC. Will keep it exclusively for my blog :-)

As far as thoughts going through a person's mind is concerned, we have a certain view, Aditi has another. To each his own. Considering over weight people, all I can say is that I see no advantage in being fat.

I would also add, that I have characters in my fiction saying things I do not, myself, believe, That's the nature.

Temple: I totally understand what you are saying. I never have more than 2 characters in my fiction. Since the writeup is always in first person, at times the character is mistaken for me personally.

Since the writeup is always in first person, at times the character is mistaken for me personally.

other draw backs of the first person singular narration:

* monotonous
* predictable

also, and others may disagree, writing in the third person is a greater challenge for the author and ultimately more demanding and challenging

Temp: "writing in the third person is a greater challenge for the author and ultimately more demanding and challenging." Why do you think I stick to first person ;-) But honestly, if someone feels writing is challenging, God bless him/ her.

I find third person narratives impersonal, especially for simple subjects. And switching from first to third isn't difficult, just go to MS Word "find" I "replace all" him. :-)

As far as monotonous and predictable is concerned, a bad story is a bad story. Narrating it either way won't change that fact.

Sorry not HIM...He :-p

Originally what was Information became Promotion - advertising is fundamettaly a capitalist idea used by all - modelling (part of advertisment) by people is a degradation of the human sprit particularly an insult to society - display only product, cost and where it is available - let people decide whether the product /price is worth and let the product /service be its brand ambassador - have you seen any ad for Group4 security services???

Pithan, I can see where you are coming from. But you should also realise that modeling is a source of employment for many. Everyone has a right to use whatever skills he/she has to making a living. I dread to think what all those creative people in ad agencies would do if their primary job would be to mention only a company's product/ cost and location.

You can't compare G4S with P&G or a Mercedes Benz because their products and the markets which they target are totally different. The Citi Group do have security services I think, and they do advertise.