Splitsvilla Or Shamesville?

While channel surfing late night, I run into this US reality show called "America's Next Top Model", where an obnoxious Tyra Banks (who seems to have successfully adopted an "all-white" accent as well as mannerisms) deriding and passing judgement on several of its contestants, often reducing the latter to tears.

Well, I have no sympathy for any of those contestants even if they cry a river. I think such people are stupid to begin with, and would probably do the human gene pool a great favour by sterilising themselves.

Do you have testosterone or progesterone?:)

AnArch : testosterone or progesterone, does it really matter as long as you get the darn point? :)

Sakshi was technically correct. It is testosterone that makes women horny, not progesterone.

AnArch, men and women have both, ie. t and p; the rub (so to speak!), lies in the proportion!

So ...ummm if a woman is injected with heavy doze of testosterone she will ape a male nymphomaniac;) kidding;)

ledz... wow, your comment is racist on so many levels I have no idea where to start. and clearly you know nothing about Tyra, cause that sistah would go off on your ass so fast your head would spin.

but really, how must a sistah talk/act for you to think she is black enough? WTF?!?!?!?

SS,

Ledzius supports "extra-judicial killings" too (eds, this is from another thread, so please delete if this is irrelevant)

SS, I have never pretended to be a PC animal, nor ever will.

"that sistah would go off on your ass so fast your head would spin"

Dunno what you mean by that, but it sure sounds interesting to me!

While I'm not sure what Ledzius means with "white mannerisms and talk" I do agree that Tyra Banks is obnoxious on that show. I used to like her and now having watched Top Model CANNOT stand her. Somebody needs to tell her to be herself. She has started to pretend that she is Oprah.

ss: Not that it isn't racist to do so, but its common even among black people to call out a black person's behavior as being "white". Eddie Murphy is sometimes jokingly referred to as a "white black man" by some in the film fraternity.

I personally don't understand how a language and mannerisms can be correlated with race when so many people belonging to a particular race have so many different mannerisms and language usages.

aditi, yeah I know about that. but ledz is not black. and it's a pretty racist comment coming from anyone. the pretext is that if you are black you have to sound like a hood rat, otherwise you're not true to your race. like only white people can sound educated. pretty crappy assertion.

Led:

""SS, I have never pretended to be a PC animal, nor ever will.""

He is a Mac Animal...

Ledz,

Ignore SS. She is venting out all her frustrations on DC forums...all you have to do is read her recent comments......

SS, I am not the one to use terms like sistah, "hood rat" here first. If you imply that anyone who speaks with a detectable black accent (and that includes even Oprah) is a "hood rat", isn't that not racism on your part?

And you are the one who is making the association here between a white accent and "sounding educated". In other words, you are contemptuous of the accent that most black Americans have.

It is for others here to decide whose comments have more racist overtones here.

ledz, do you not know how to read? go back to what I said and read what is there, not what you made up.

first of all, I am a linguist. specializing in sociolingistics. so I would really like you to tell me what a black accent is. really, do tell.

second, no I did not make that connection. that is a connection people falsely make every day.

third, don't be mad at me cause you got caught for what you said.

Just maybe this is a "covert" talent search for future film world entrance. There are so many girls with so many dreams of grand proportions, that in a country with over a billion people, this seems to be no big deal! What amazes me is how you came to watch it! I did not know there was such a show and of course I don't watch cable!

SS, you read too much into my first comment, and assumed I was being racist. And to justify that, you injected stereotypes and derogatory terms here, and just made it appear that I was implying those by my comment on Tyra. A smart tactic, but one that fell flat on its ass.

"third, don't be mad at me cause you got caught for what you said."

I can say that to you. Btw, I am not being mad at you. I have been on DC long enough to know when to ignore you.

Led:

"A smart tactic, but one that fell flat on its ass.""

If tactics were asses, beggars would fry!

Or did I get this wrong too?

I don't wanna seem like I am taking sides especially since Chandra here will be quick to bring up the "ganging up" angle but lets face it, it really is somewhat racist to describe a manner of speaking as "white" or "black" especially within the US. I dunno if in India it is racist but here in the US if one were to say "She is being so white" about a black person people would be a bit shocked. In India I feel people get away with saying a lot of racist stuff without even realizing what a discriminatory connotation the phrase may have. This may be why Chandra, Ledzius can't see why SS is so upset.


Ledzius could you please be a little more specific and expand on what you mean by Tyra speaking "white"? Coz honestly, just because somebody is black doesn't mean they should speak like Ludacris and Bobby Brown. It is a common misconception that educated black people who speak well, do not use Ebonics or hip-hop lingo are speaking "white". They are not. They are just reflecting economic class, education etc when they speak a certain way.


Sakshi: Sorry your thread seems to be running away from the spool :)

thank you aditi.

it seems that ledz does not understand how race works in the US and instead of facing up to his faux pas wants to turn it around and blame it on me by inventing some shit about me using stereotypes.

notice how he dodged the query about what a black accent is.

In order to succeed economically and socially, when one has to comply with the cultural demands of a racial majority, that compliance to such orientation is treated as education - when they are made precondition for well-being, progress and being called 'educated', than one arrives at an antithesis of multi-culturalism - a racial supremacism - when blacks are required to be white to gain acceptance among whites. There has been lots of progress in dismentaling racism in USA. But No. Racism is not dead yet. I think Ledz's comments were measured and appropriate.

Worked in a call centre once.

A rude black was a black who wasn't angry. The rest were always abusive and pissed off, and also very poor. Mind you, I didn't come across any exception to this little formula here in about 3 months of heavy calls.

A normal, non abusive white was just normal, sometimes a little pissed, but still controlled. A pissed white was usually trying very hard to control himself. And a nice white was always very courteous and chatty.

Oh, and btw, I never came across a happy/cheerful black.

Just my experience.

Aditi

I do agree that Ledz was being insensitive with his 'white' comment.

My comment was focussed on SS. She sounds hysterical in all her comments these days. May be she does not realise this. I think a more reasonable argument (like the one you offered) would have set the tone. Not that ledz would have been convinced anyways. :-)

rgds

I sound hysterical? WTF?
really... show me a comment where this is true.

it seems like you are the only one who "realizes" this because no one else has said a thing. meanwhile you are the one oft accused of being a troll.

hmmm....

Aditi, you wrote -"It is a common misconception that educated black people who speak well, do not use Ebonics or hip-hop lingo are speaking "white"."

First of all, why do you assume that I meant blacks speak Ebonics or hip-hop lingo automatically when they don't speak "white"? Do you fail to recognize that there is a legitimate black accent that is NOT ebonics or hip hop lingo? If you make the assumption that "black accent" is always the latter, it only reflects on your own subconscious racial bias.

If you have ever listened to Oprah, Sam Jackson, or many of the other respectable blacks (which I sure you have), you know rather well in your heart that they do NOT speak Ebonics. So using this term just to build your case against me sounds pretty hollow.

In case both you and SS missed where I was coming from, I just wanted to point out that Tyra does not have a trace of even the standard black accent which you would associate with most respectable blacks in the US. As Kerty pointed out, maybe even the standard legitimate black accent is not enough to be successful in the US. One has to go completely white. Which is probably the reason why Tyra Banks is where she is now, as far as the show is concerned. I was merely pointing at the inherent racism in US showbiz (and in the process inadvertently exposed the prejudices of some of the commentators here). Need I say more?

I've got to see this show - Splitsvilla:)

Ledzius: Firstly, I am not making a case against you. If you would stop getting defensive and realize the connotation of your own words you would take this criticism objectively rather than personally. When you say a person is being "white" you ARE introducing a racist connotation. Whether you wanna admit it or not is a different issue.

Secondly, you speak about an "accent" that black people like Oprah etc use which I honestly have not noticed. I don't see a difference between Oprah's "accent" and Tyra's accent. Really, I don't. In fact Tyra often uses a lot of "y'all" and "sista" than Oprah ever would so your comment is not just racist-sounding but also baseless.

Chandra: As for SS, her comments do sound confrontational and somewhat reproaching I admit...but hysterical I'm not so sure especially since we cannot hear her tone (only imagine it). So it kinda is a matter of perspective.

I think we all need to remember that this is a virtual medium and people's tone etc cannot be interpreted. Everybody needs to be given this benefit of doubt.

Also lets get back to the topic at hand everybody....Splitsvilla

well I think we all see where ledz is coming from when he used to the term "respectible blacks"

that says it all right there in a nutshell. I guess he feels if you have a non-standard accent you are not respectable!

(falls over laughing at his continuous digging himself in an even deeper hole each time he responds to this....)

PS, I am not, nor have I ever been, hysterical. well, laughing hysterically, maybe, but not in any other way.

Led:

"respectible blacks"

what???

perhaps respectable spelling too??

Led:

"respectible blacks"

What the FISH? Really!

Folks, either:

1. Led knows not what he/she is doing, as she/he continues to inadvertently dig herself/himself into a bigger racist hole.

2. Or he/she does know exactly what he/she is upto, but has that "well I've never pretended to be a PC animal" ace up his/her sleeve. The ultimate license for intentional injury to folks who have said nothing vile against you.

SS - "well I think we all see where ledz is coming from when he used to the term "respectible blacks"

Go back to my comment and understand the context in which I used that term. You are just indulging in ad hominem attacks since you very well know your case is weak.

"(falls over laughing at his continuous digging himself in an even deeper hole each time he responds to this....)"

Keep deluding yourself..

CS, maybe you should go to my post and check for yourself the original spelling as well as the context in which I have used the term.

yes, I was the one who created the misspelling.

but no, it is not an ad hominem attack. you seriously have no clue how to talk about race without being offensive. on top of that you refuse to admit it. even when others beyond myself have told you this, you act as if I am the only one telling you and that you've not said a thing.

the way you used the term is offensive, ledz. you really have some serious issues behind how you think about race.

Led,

Point taken about the spelling, but not about the context. "respectable blacks"? sounds like the senator who once said that obama was one of the "cleanest" blacks ever in the race. retort from al sharpton "trust me, i take a shower everyday". the senator did not intend to sound racist....yet.

Actually those 2 guys are ex-roadies (another reality show on MTV) ,so I don't think they are from the producer's clan. And it's fun to watch girls wooing guys. Of-course I don't believe all that "Finding true love along with 5 lacs" crap! It's just a show.
But I think the roles of men and women are changing in the society. While women now go out and fend for themselves, they woo the men also !
Men, on the other hand, now cook, help their wives in the household chores and take "paternity" leaves.

Again it's not a sweeping generalization. But it's happening in atleast a fraction of the society.

Folks,

This is all so much ado about nothing. PC is so infuriating sometimes. It is clear to me what Ledz meant by "respectable blacks". Could any one deny here that, blacks lag behind other races when it comes to education, income levels etc? He is talking about those folks who have had the good fortune to be born in a relatively well-off family, get a good education and hence have a more prevalent American accent. This PC just distracts from the main discussion here and everywhere else.

There is no doubt that TV programs these days try to shock and awe people. It is a natural progression from the Hum Log to Khandan to Shaanti (all these were TV shows in India during the 80s and 90s) and now the reality shows. It is shockingly predictable as Time magazine would say. That's why no TV in Kulkarni residence for the last 8 years.

Regards,

Ravi

For all those PC folks here,

Bill Clinton was called the first "Black President" of America. Is that racism?

Ravi

I'm quite irritated that Sakshi's interesting post on the worst reality show in India today has degenerated into a silly fight about black/white.

I got to see Rakhi Sawant's show in Zoom and man, I loved Rakhi. Something tells me I may be one of the few ones who find her earthiness attractive;)

Point is its always refreshing when people are allowed to be themselves on television and not be like our robotic anchors of NTDV and Times Now with their neutral accents;)

DL, I don't know how you find Rakhi 'earthy'. She looks very plastic to me. Almost all her body parts are fake :(

Spirit

What body parts are fake?

Ravi:

""This is all so much ado about nothing. PC is so infuriating sometimes. It is clear to me what Ledz meant by "respectable blacks". Could any one deny here that, blacks lag behind other races when it comes to education, income levels etc?"'

Ravi, I don't believe Led meant to be demeaning. However, without being self-righteous about it, only when one has lived here for decades, does the discourse of race, the way it plays out, sinks in. As well, to be "respectable", one does not necessarily need a collection of degrees ("education""), loads of cash ("money") etc.

common, ignore ravi. seriously. that comment was so far beyond the pale (no pun intended) that it's not worth responding.

SS,

In India, as you well know, there is a very strong discourse about ""respectability"". Largely a hangover from a feudal era that survives and thrives, trying to draw the line between the so-called elites and those labeled as the riff-raff.

Some typical examples:

"Women from respectable families do not do such and such"

"Of course, since you come from a good family, you have to think about marrying into a respectable family"

"respectable women do not wear jeans pants."

heh.

I agree with Spirit. Ms. Sawant herself admitted on KJo's show about having done plastic surgery with that now-famous statement " Jo bhagwan nahi deta hai,doctor deta hai" (What God didn't give you can be given by a doctor). Okay, I appreciate her honesty though. But she looks like a Barbie now. With puffed up lips,boobs,cheeks etc etc. Infact some people say she looks like a transexual (ironically that's the role she played in Masti. Maybe she suited the role well!). She's fun and all, but she doesn't look real.

First it was Black/White, now its Rakhi Sawant.... :)

Coming back to Splitsvilla, im amazed that there are so many girls who want to participate in the show. That there is an audience is one thing, that there is so much participation is quite another.

I find it completely bizarre, cos i can't imagine any of my female friends putting up with such nonsense even for a minute.

This might come a little late, as the show is almost over, but as I just stumbled across your article I feel compelled to comment on it (and not the race or rakhi issue that the others are bickering about!)
I like Splitsvilla. This comes as a shock to most people as I am known to be a self proclaimed feminist. What needs to be taken into consideration is that the girls on this show are on the show voluntarily, and that too to promote their careers (with most of them wanting to get into the glamor/ film field) These girls DO intend to become the next priyanka chopra or even rakhi sawants of India, and if they want to come on TV and shake their tushes and flash their assest so be it. I guess for lot of people the problem with the show lies in these 20 women wooing these so called "catches", but say it was the other way round, with 20 men trying to impress two girls, would that too make you uncomfortable or turned off?

As a 28 year old myself and presently pursuing a PhD at an esteemed institute, I was shocked beyond belief the day I stepped inside the Tv room in the GIRL's hostel where I stay, and found a bevy of women, also PhD aspirants, eyes agog, excitement personified, watching what? SPLITSVILLA!!!! I had the rather innocent intention of watching a Euro2008 football match, but of course, I was no match for them.....
Had to sit through the show and only then could I touch the remote. That was the only episode of Splitsvilla I saw... I came away with my opinion of the fellow emancipated women of my institute, spiralling downwards at the speed of light. '
So if women on campus, all ultra-intelligent no doubt, are uplifted to seventh heaven by such derogatory shows, can we really blame the men for being such chauvinists?