Pratibha Patil and Women's Empowerment

Do you know women get less or no punishment compared to men for same crimes?

Do you know, women who abuse and drive their husbands to death never get even arrested?

64% of suicides are by men compared to 36% by women.

The congress govt wants women's votes.

It was predicted long back that Congress will play such dirty games for women's votes as it played such games with religious and caste votes for decades.

In a communal war no religion wins.
Same way, in a gender war no gender will win.

Societies always have a sympathetic ear for women so women's oppression stories are oversold.

In a male dominated society, it is most men who get dominated and lead powerless lives. That reflects in suicide statistics.

Swinging the pendulum too much in any direction will simply create social chaos.

do u know that sometimes statistics can be misleading..that perhaps men commit suicide because they are emotionally weaker than women??
i agree there are two sides of a coin...
women, for long have suffered... dont you agree a little bit that the preferential treatment they get is atleast slightly deserved??????????

woah! the article blew me off my feet! another job well done id say...n yeah i certainly hope sonia gandhi or one of her "spoons" read this article and try concealing their ploys in a better manner...and damn i totally agree with the statistics point that u made...cuz 99% of all statistic ARE MADE UP.lolz. this article totally brings out the bitter realities of indian politics..way to go! u could lyk totally publish this in the newspapers man...it wud rock the tabloids!

thank you kapila!:)

Just like men sitting up there in parliament are not in any way representative of male community...

similarly!!!, a woman prez does not represent females/women of this country. The hype around P.P is pure political to its core.

you are so right girl! u have delved beneath the thing to bring the dirty strategies upon the surface. such eye openers are badly required!!this article throbs like man! and its quite true..most of the statistics are made up..MANipulated!

sorry...i meant..that this article throbs like woman!

totally agree with you FF!
@ drishti.
u nailed it girl!

drishti you were right in the first instance even if it was a Freudian slip!

hey FF..
u mite think that representative or rather symbols have no effect on the masses.. but the fact remains that most the populations do consist of illiterate people..to them hype does matter...they go with the flow...if u kno what i mean...

Diya

!!!!!dont you agree a little bit that the preferential treatment they get is atleast slightly deserved!!!!!!

I DON'T AGREE.

for suicide rate: you said men are weak. that is pathetic. If you have heart show some sympathy otherwise be quite. Please don't give these type of statements.

"women, for long have suffered... dont you agree a little bit that the preferential treatment they get is atleast slightly deserved??????????"

I perfectly agree. Women have suffered for long and hence they need license to jail and kill men.

Germans also suffered in the hands of Jewish bankers for centuries. So, it is natural for all of us to feel germans have the right to exploit jews and throw them in concentration camps.

That is why the word "Feminazi" was coined to represent this similarity of attitude between both social transformations.

I also agree with you that:
If men are weak, they are responsible.
If women are weak, men are responsible.


-----
There is no evidence that women suffered more then men in any time window in history since last 5000 years.
-----

listen u mysoginist...
i dont know how this hatred got ingrained in ur heart but ill take a guess...
women in urban areas, women like me ie. are doing amaaaazingly well! doing well in studies , doing well in jobs and what not...so now u HAVE to go sniffin to ur buddies and bitch...
BROADEN UR PERSPECTIVE MR.!!!!
while u keep on wailin and distortin fact and callin women nazin(HOW DARE U?????)...
the fact will always remain that women have suffered,is suffering and will keep on sufferin in the hands of egoistical men like u!!
i am guessin u dont step outta the house...cause if u did u would know that educated women too even now face workplace harrassments...
there are millions of cases filed for domestic violence(ya ya..now u gonna howl and say its men whose gttin beaten up...but m tkin abt. the real wrld..nt the distorted 1..exeptns alwys there)
rape cases keep on increasing day by day and i wont be surprised if u gloat and say they deserve it...
list is endless my dear..and i was just talkin about the educated urban women... take a guess about the helpless illiterate once...

"There is no evidence that women suffered more then men in any time window in history since last 5000 years."
u gotta be kiddin about this ...if not, u blind,deaf or what??????

maybe hes just plain stupid!

!!!!!!!!!!women in urban areas, women like me ie. are doing amaaaazingly well! doing well in studies , doing well in jobs and what not...!!!!!!!!!

i think you are joking or gave this statement in angry (without thinking). No one will hate a woman for this silly reason.

really??? are u sayin u dnt bear a grudge against them even a lil bit cause of this...well then u a saint..
but what i really meant was that u guys bear a grudge cause of all the benefits we are gttin... dnt need to spell out what... its u who is silly, cryin for wishy washy things and closing your eyes tightly shut for women who are really suffering.
i am not a man hater. i believe i follow humanistic values...
i will shed a tear and pray if a man suffer just like when a women suffers..
and i absolutely was not tryin to be "heartless"while makin the statistics point of view.. i was jst mkin a point..even if u dnt wish to agree...

Lets fill the slot for next term for handpicked PM and President.

PM - LALU YADAV
President - RABRI DEVI, 10 YEARS CM EXPERIENCE!!!

It's cast, gender and the religion which is taking precedence over quality.

Same game is now being played for VP Post.

I never ever thought that Indira Gandhi became PM because she was a woman.

But people now are finding rationale even in wrong selections proves that the divide and rule policies devised by British and being followed by current bunch of Jokers (Politicians) works and will work forever.

God Save India...

thanks for calling me as a saint..

a comment from a woman like this, is really great!!!!!!!. Oh! today i am feeling like that i became a hero...by getting woman's comment like that, but i am sorry to say that, i am little bit envy towards,what woman getting even though they deserved it or not.
But what i am saying is..please listen carefully...i don't hate woman just because of they are amazingly(!!!) doing well, in studies and jobs and all fields. aisa ho sakta hey kya..never.

!!!!!!!!i believe i follow humanistic values...
i will shed a tear and pray if a man suffer just like when a women suffers..
and i absolutely was not tryin to be "heartless"while makin the statistics point of view!!!!!

really????? oh! i am very glad. you just make a point that "men are weak that's why they are making suicides"...by this any one can understand that you are reallyyyy..have humanistic values.

!!!!!!!its u who is silly, cryin for wishy washy things and closing your eyes tightly shut for women who are really suffering.!!!!!!!!!

please stop your imaginations.

why do more chinese die daily in china than in singapore?

von siffers invited to reply!

i am not imaging..iam stating facts...
and comming again to my statistic view.. i said maybe men are emotionaaly weak ..by experience i feel they are.. tho strenth wise many may not be as weak...
pleeeease pray tell me how i am beig "heartless"...

P.s- u imaginin about bein a saint tho...or else are u plain dull 2 differentiate sarcasm wth a compliment???

u imaginin about bein a saint tho...or else are u plain dull 2 differentiate sarcasm wth a compliment???

read it once again. why don't you think that is also sarcasm(what i wrote).you don't like to think or you can't?

coming to the suicide issue...some where a person commit to suicide and some one terming like "may be men are weak emotionally",a stupid result of a very bad biased study(i am describing the study not you, don't get angry, in lost post also i used the word "silly" to describe the reason , not you... i think you will notice this).

when woman suffers,she tell it to all her friends and parents, she weeps and shed lot of tears, so she will get lot of support and helping hands,by this she will recover quickly.

on the other hand, men can't cry in front of the public or his parents or friends after certain age.they have to bear it silently.In these days also lot of men believe that "MEN SHOULD NOT CRY".

take an example if woman get harassed she can tell to her parents and now days to police and others, so she can survive from that situation.

what if, it happened to men.They can't go to police station because there no provision for men to got justice there.And they can't say it to friends because they simply laugh and questions..kaisa mard hey re tu?, and they can't cry publicly.

after getting false allegations or genuine ones..if men take divorce, they need to lost their children also.Maximum no of cases, woman get custody of children.After that every thing is depend on her mercy.she may allow him to see his children or not.some woman don't like to allow the man to see his children.Men lost every thing(i am not saying that women will get every thing).

Men feels they are alone.No body is there for them.And really no body care about him.If he is falsely accused of any draconian cases, you can't imagine his feelings.

Men are stronger in emotionally.I don't want to say some one are great and some are weak.
i am just saying men also stronger. The situations and traditions, and biased laws, negative impression in public,their reservedness every thing create immense pressure on men,may be more pressure on men compared to woman.

that's why suicides will takes place. very very few people commit suicide for silly reasons(they are emotionally really weak).These things will happen behind the suicide.though i am not a psychologist or a great analyst i can say this.

you didn't consider these and you just threw the "emotionally weak" concept, and u r claiming that you have experience.May be in your experience you didn't consider these things.that's the reason for this type of opinion.

so my kind request to you is, change your attitude or opinion against men.nothing more than this.if the word "heartless" deeply hurts you, sorry for that.

May this discussion goes irrelevant to the topic you have posted..but i can't be quite after seeing that statement.

i dont know what u think "my attitude towards men" is..and i dnt wish to know..
u are damn right... ur comments are nothing related to what i have posted about...
i am sick and tired of the suicide comment and may be i know nthin about why pple(men and women) commit suicide at all and i am not tryin to be arrogant here..
but i have one single request 4m you...
if u have nythng more to comment....pleeeeaes let it be about my article and what i think about tht!

Diya

You just hit the bulls eye in your article.I am really tired of reading somethig like a woman in president seat is symbol of woman empowerment.

president post to her is not the people decision. it is just choice of the party in power.

i feels like, woman empowerment depends on common woman.not on the politicians.I read that in JNU some good courses have more girl students than boys.And autorities said it is pure talent that make them out numbered the boys.
may be it is the symbol of woman empowerment.these type of things happen in village level also then politician need to try for the men empowerment.

thank u 4 the last comment comment:)

Hi Diya: You chose quite a topic to write about! I checked out your blog and noticed that you are 19. I am glad to see a young and enthusiastic author who has placed her views about women's status in India on a public forum. Kudos!

It bothers me when I see a thread being taken on meaningless tangents so in a hope to steer this discussion in the right direction I had few questions and thoughts:

You say: "Since time immemorial, women of our mother land have been worshiped as Durga, Saraswati and what not. The Bahu of the house has been term as the 'Ghar ki Lakhmi'. Thus, to an outsider it would seem that the women of India enjoy the highest of respect."

Well, to be fair, you refer only to Hindu practices/ customs/ rituals etc which I don't believe an outsider would understand, Not to mention India is a secular country with plenty religions and religious practices that an "outsider" would neither be able to interpret nor relate to.

However when he/ she asks who the President of the nation is and finds out it is a woman, I believe that probably does a lot for the international image of Indian women.

When I came to live in the mid-west, I was horrified at some of the ignorant misconceptions harbored by people about Indian women: Indian women don't wear knee-length skirts, can work only if her husband's family allows her to, are very "homely", shy and not very career oriented and other such stereotypes were rampant. So when I mentioned that our country has had a female prime minister (Indira Gandhi) while they still continue to wonder whether the US is ready for a female president, it brings them some alternative insight.

Just as President Kalam's tenure demonstrated the rights enjoyed by the Muslim minority in our nation, I think Pratibha Patil's being the President will do something for the image of Indian women worldwide if not so much within India. I don't neccessarily think that has anything to do with the legislative powers but moreso with their international status/ title.

You say: ".....and on the other hand, feel no qualms in suppressing her to the very marrow of her bones. The 'Lakshmi' is beaten up to pulp whenever the chance presents itself and no one raises a single voice."

Experience tells me that only a woman can really empower herself and walk away from such a situation. Shelters, counseling, homes or maybe even vocation centers can be provided by other people but ultimately the woman herself has to make the choice between being a victim all her life or walking away as a survivor. And time and again I have seen that women will choose to stay in an abusive relationship because it keeps her in her comfort zone or ensures financial provision even if respite is available. In such a scenario, it is the woman herself who makes a conscious choice of staying in an abusive environment.

So lately, I have been wondering if the movement needs to be re-named women's "self"-empowerment. And I speak of women belonging to lower socio-economic classes, rural areas etc where women's liberation has had no adequate meaning or manifestations thus far. Maybe it is time for the movement to seep into those areas. And who knows, having a female president may be cause for inspiration.

Regards.

thank you Aditi..i really appreciate ur comment..
and yes i do see ur point.. and u r very right when u say that the movement should be renamed as"self"-empowerment.
thank you again!

Diya,

You wrote:
"the fact will always remain that women have suffered,is suffering and will keep on sufferin in the hands of egoistical men like u!!"

So, what do you propose for the treatment of egoistic men and women?

Should we jail all the egoistic men and women who torture their spouses?

Or do you want egoistic women to roam freely after torturing innocent men, women, children and elders.

Do you know, women abuse children more than men and 50% of all children face DV in India?

I repeat again:
-----
There is no evidence that women suffered more then men in any time window in history since last 5000 years.
-----


Women have been getting preferential treatment since the ages of Ramayana and Mahabharata. They could abuse and drive their husbands to death and yet never got any punishment.

Why are you championing preferential treatment for women?


Aditi,

You must be getting very happy to find such young feminists.

Diya, Women are indeed suffering a lot and are getting vicgtimised daily. The article below made be change all my thinking about women and now, I feel all women are victims and all men are culprits.

I completely agree with some feminists and their supporters who call for castration of men.

I also agree that all women need special preferences and also a license to adultery so that they can exercise choices in life.
http://www.deccanherald.com/Content/Jul142007/living2007071312665.asp


Rashmi Vasudeva writes in above article:

Just a few years ago, adultery was a dangerous liaison accompanied by fierce whispers and sniggers. Today, it has been smartly reinvented. Stigma is passe and women are going where their fantasies didnt dare to. For the yuppies, adultery is a mind game spun in the virtual world.

There is no seven-year-itch in Swapna Manjunath's happy marriage. She just happened to find her college crush Chetan while trawling the web. And they got talking. Talking led to pouring out of hearts in google chat after google chat. A few months later, Chetan came down to Bangalore from the US and they met after six years. An affair was simply the natural next step. "My affair with Chetan, if you can call it an affair, was not just about sex," she says. "I could communicate with him, tease, laugh and cry like I could never do with my husband. For me, it was an emotional catharsis."

If you thought Swapna took any drastic step after discovering such a rapport with her old friend, well yeah, you thought wrong. Chetan went back to Salt Lake City and Swapna still has a 'happy' marriage, though not exactly itch-free. And if you imagine that Chetan and Swapna have vowed never to cross each other's paths again, you have been seeing too many Bollywood movies. In real life, like Swapna's, the affair continues - via google chat.

Only a few years ago, cheating on spouses were for the glitterati. The middle classes did it too, mostly in cloak and dagger fashion but for many, the guilt belt was too tight. Says Mumbai-based marriage counsellor Pritha Shah, "Even just two-three years ago, it was all about finding good sex outside marriage. That's no longer the only reason for straying. When it comes to women especially, they are looking for emotional bonds or just some plain excitement." She cites the instance of a 27-year-old management consultant who came to her for counselling. This woman was a highly qualified, very successful professional who began an affair with an office colleague because she was bored in her marriage. "She said her husband was a family man who took care of her three-year-old son and looked after her needs but she was just 'attracted' to this colleague and rather bored." Her affair is conducted mostly over the ubiquitous cell phone and in brief snatches of time after office and it is all about emotional bonding, similar tastes and yes, great sex.

Mind over body
The new world of adultery is mostly about the mind rather than the body. Today, with easy access to Internet and the boom in mobile connectivity, conducting affairs is rather simple. These casual 'tech-enabled' affairs usually last a few weeks to a few months. Sometimes, the affair begins and ends without the spouse having any inkling whatsover. "I used to have these long conversations on the net with my distant cousin...we discovered so many common passions and interests. I feel great simply talking to him. I share with him many intimacies...stuff that I have never shared with my husband and will never will," declares 33-year-old homemaker Varshini Ravi. Her 'affair' ends the minute husband comes home. "I log off the minute he arrives. He hates to see me spending time surfing the net," she says.

Time constraints on working couples, long hours of work, often late into the night, and constant travel are major triggers. Though there are no statistics available, it is safe to say that more women than ever before are looking for love outside marriage. A quick survey with counsellors reveals as much. Over the years, the media too has gone ballistic about the new-age empowered woman but has hardly explored the other side of this liberation. Television serials too are a reflection of a strange dichotomy. Women in popular soaps are ultra-religious, devoted to families, wear only traditional clothing and conduct affairs quite flagrantly!

When it comes to women, their affairs usually start out as platonic friendships. In his book, Emotional Infidelity, M Gary Neuman says if by the time you get home, you have cribbed about your office problems with colleagues and don't feel like telling it again to your hubby, you are committing emotional infidelity and depriving your marriage of the spark it needs. Most people fail to see the risk of intimate platonic friendships at workplaces, says Ms Shah. "Relationships are always at a danger of getting too intimate and once they do, it is near impossible to take a step backwards," she warns.

Too much too soon?
According to gynaecologist Dr Soumyashree who ends up counselling women who come to her clinic, today's women have discovered too many things too quickly. "They have so many options and when everything is available, you begin to demand the same kind of choices in partners too. You are less tolerant and more easily bored."

Is it the married woman's quest for excitement that's prompting more women to look beyond their marriages? Or is it that women have simply become more demanding and assertive? Or is it just a way to an instant high? "It is a combination of all three," says marriage counsellor Kshama Ramu. "Earlier, couples came to me for counselling after trying to reconcile for a year or two. Nowadays, I have had couples coming to me after a week of marriage!"
Another interesting trend is of such infidelity not breaking up marriages! "That's because women are wiser," quips Ms Shah. "They do not want to rock the boat, they are better at hiding their emotions though popularly believed otherwise and sometimes it so happens that they actually love their husbands too much to let go."

In business partnerships and marriage partnerships, O' the cheating that goes on, goes a song. A song that is being secretly sung in many hearts...
(Some names have been changed)

@Aditi: However when he/ she asks who the President of the nation is and finds out it is a woman, I believe that probably does a lot for the international image of Indian women.

There is little doubt about this and can be judged, paradoxically enough, by the writeups that this historic event is getting in the Western press. I specifically distinguish the Western press coverage, which can only be described as laced with gratuitous, mean-minded editorializing. This coverage by the Associated Press is typical and is perhaps indicative of a deep-seated insecurity.
Compare this to the coverage in the Asian press, not just Indian, which sticks more professionally to reporting the facts.

dear von siffer..
i hope u dnt mind..but i havnt gone thru ur comments and i dnt plan to as they are reeeeeally out of context from what ive written about..
if u feel so strongly against women..please write about it..i'll be more than happy to comment...
in the meanwhile, if u wish, do reply to #19temporal(that is if u hvnt yet replied)!!!!

An excellent read:

http://www.uwgb.edu/DutchS/PSEUDOSC/ATMOVIE3Chick.HTM

Diya,

do not worry about #19. Temporal and siffers have long and strong relationship. We keep playing delusional games.

Pick some original words. The whole DC reader club knows that none of you have ever been able to stand up to Temp.

@SFF_India,
oh i am not worried at all! i have seen earlier comments of temporal,espially a really cool poem written by him!
i do know that he is a very interesting guy...

"The 'Lakshmi' is beaten up to pulp whenever the chance presents itself and no one raises a single voice."

This statement is completely wrong.

"The 'Lakshmi' is beaten up to pulp..."

Only hard core short tempered selfish feminsts will issue such blatantly baseless and sweeping statements. The reason for issuance of such statements is because Feminists are not made accountable for their lies and hatred that they spew and they consequences thereof. They think "Freedom of speech" includes their fundamental right to lie and make hoax calls.

Govts should charge Rs 1/- for every lie everytime any feminist distributes in society and the contribution will soon become a significant part of our GDP.

Anon & Hardy: Are you guys denying the existence of domestic abuse? I'm just checking thats all. Wasn't sure what you guys meant. Thanks!

Depends on how you define abuse.

Actions taken in ones defense are not abuse.

There is no doctrine or established convention which coerces a living being to choose his modus operandi for his/her defense depending on the mode/kind of attack/assault launched on him.

Natural wear and tear of marriage is not abuse.

Disregarding any acts of defense by males and Taking natural wear and tear of marriage into account, Annual domestic abuse stands at about 11% only(NFHS 1998-1999 stats).

1) Given 1 billion population of this country, Domestic abuse which amounts to beating to pulp and which is unidirectional is not only rare but is mostly prevalent in certain poor sections of society only.

2) To say that Husbands are always on look out for a chance to beat up their wives whenever and wherever he gets is beyond doubt is a highly irresponsible statement. As for the abuse itself, there is no reaction without an action.

Incidences of males suffering abuse (domestic and otherwise) far outnumber women undergoing abuse. Without feeling the need to quote any data or statistics, I can conveniently say that Number of incidences of males(with age less than 20) and suffering domestic abuse are n times more than number of similar females. However, it still it is considered as insignificant social issue by all and sundry.

Liars are abusers too any day anytime. Once a liar always a liar.
The 11% crap you provided is bullshit. 89% goes unreported. My neighbor gets beaten often she never reported it. My Domestic help gets beaten all the time--she never reports it. Drunkard husbands with cheap intake of alcohol are always on the look out to beat the pulp of their wives. They are jobless, frustrated and mad. So quit talking about statistics which are only based on reported data.

And even if we believe your male incidences, it is because of the brawls that males with each other. The victim is a male and the perpetrator is a male. Get your facts complete.

While it comes to a female the victim is a female and the perpetrator it a MALE only.

#39 Hardy: Thank you for your clarifications. Your explanation has brought forth a lot more questions for me which I hope you will take the trouble to answer.

My question was very simple. It was "Are you denying the existence of domestice abuse?"

I was just looking for a Yes/No answer.

You said: "which is unidirectional is not only rare but is mostly prevalent in certain poor sections of society only"

So, you say it does exist, right?

Are poorer sections of society not defined as part of our country? Is it justified if it happens in these sections? What percentage of our nation is below poverty line?

Also, I would very much appreciate if you could reference me the two studies that you have quoted from (i'm sure you used valid references, right?) 1) that demonstrates that domestic abuse does not occur in the middle/ upper classes and 2) A "unidirectional" domestic abuse is very "rare".

I would really like to read those references. I find this very interesting.

You said: "As for the abuse itself, there is no reaction without an action."

Ahh! How intriguing! So abuse happens because the victim did something to deserve the abuse?? Got it! So does that mean if a woman does get beaten up or abused, she probably did something to deserve the beating? Does this hold true for people in "poorer sections of society" or do those men just beat women out of the blue? How does lower economic status cause men to randomly beat up their wives? What an interesting phenomenon!

If a woman beats up a man, then would you say the same thing...that she was just reacting to something he did? As you said "no reaction without action"

More importantly, do you believe that with respect to all acts of violence or just domestic abuse? Meaning if a woman you cared for was raped or abused, would you tell her that she must've done something to provoke that reaction?

I look for answers because it gives me an insight into how people view the issue of domestic violence.

Thank you so much.

28 Siffer says: There is no evidence that women suffered more then men in any time window in history since last 5000 years.

Diya, there is also no evidence thus far on DC that Siffers tell the truth or stick to rationale.

Also, since there weren't any Siffers for a majoirty of the last 5000 years, women's suffering was at a minimum and hence the error in averages.

*******

As Andrew Lang once said, some people (in this case SIFFERS) use statistics like a drunk man uses a lampost, for support rather than for illumination.

*******

re: #33:

me lord

i strongly resent and protest this outta-blue allegation:

Temporal and siffers have long and strong relationship.

The whole nation is aware of the crooked method of UPA Political Mafia, to install an unknown lady, Pratibha Patil as India's President. She is President
of political Mafia in power.

It is good that the nation is voicing its opposition to the choice of politicians. Letters, Evidence of fraud & Swindle etc., has no effect on our dumb, deaf, blind polity in power.

She is not the People's President like President Kalam.

What we need is a silent peaceful strong march by fellow citizens, to
pass a message.This is one method that will have an effect around the world.

Organise a Black Flag march to the Parliament, Rastrapati Bhavan,Raj Bhavans and state Assemblies all over India. "When such marches are organised in Washington, USA, both White House and Congress shakes".

Electing a tainted president is the worst gift to so-called mature nation.
What will be the creditability of the nation led by the president who is herself accountable for banking frauds, swindle of poor women and alleged abatement in murder.

what other countries will think of India?
How many Indians will respect their President ?

The protests must continue, till such time the Rashtrapati Bhavan
is vacated by her or she prove herself not guilty without benefit of doubt.
August 15th and January 26th should be declared Black Days till then by
the decent, honest and free democratic citizens of India.

Hey Gope

You are a crazy old man...get your facts straight! Pratibha has made sure that she will get all the escaping convicts back to India who are hiding in USA and UK and she is going to give siffers a very very hard time, including oldies who are equally involved in the crime.

dear hardy..
Do i need to add any thing more????
Best of luck answering aditi's questions!
@desimen
hahahaha! totally agree wth ya!!

#40...
Dear observer...

The 11% crap you provided is bullshit. 89% goes unreported.

The sample size of above was 89,199 women all across country distributed across all sections, age groups, religions e.t.c. It is a very detailed statistical analysis. The data does NOT represent the police reported cases. It was a survey!!! and not a police raid. So annual figure of 11% is a much more reliable and accurate as against the kind of sweeping statements you issued.

My neighbor gets beaten often she never reported it. My Domestic help gets beaten all the time--she never reports it. Drunkard husbands with cheap intake of alcohol are always on the look out to beat the pulp of their wives. They are jobless, frustrated and mad. So quit talking about statistics which are only based on reported data.


Yes, those people who beat and get beaten are part of above 11%.

And even if we believe your male incidences, it is because of the brawls that males with each other. The victim is a male and the perpetrator is a male. Get your facts complete.

In a Violence there is only an abused and an abuser. Bringing gender dilutes the core issue of domestic violence.

The victim is a male and the perpetrator is a male. Get your facts complete.

Firstly that is factually incorrect for e.g

a) mothers beat children much more than fathers but all of it goes unreported and (un) surveyed. It is even considered socially insignificant and irrelevant issue.

b) Male children are abused much more than their female siblings and it is a known fact.

and Secondly what you said is inconsequential. All wanted to say is that even when males get abused more it is still considered socially insignificant and irrelevant issue.

While it comes to a female the victim is a female and the perpetrator it a MALE "only".

Absolutely wrong. Some of your Indian feminist friends would agree with me on this. Please check with them why your are wrong.

I do not have to check with feminists at all on this. Do you even know what a feminist is or who to call a feminist, when your own views on gender are so mixed up?

Yes you male chilren are more abused, do you know why? Because females are killed at birth. Heard of female infanticide ? There goes you endless explanations in the gutter.

You said mother beat their children...only beat...good. Fathers like the likes of sifers abandon their children and murder them that contributes to the ever inflating statistics of female infanticide

And yes, I did not start a gender war out here, you started it in your own comment and even justified it like a bravo and hell bent on convincing that males are victims too. Do not start a gender war.In a Violence there is only an abused and an abuser. Bringing gender dilutes the core issue of domestic violence. however, most likely it is always the male who is the perpetrator.

Once a beater always a beater. So isnt that your trait? and that got you in trouble.

#41...

Aditi Nadkarni You said..

So, you say it(DV) does exist, right?

Yes, absolutely it exists and will never cease to exist. As a conclusion of theory of entropy(a well accepted scientific proven theory), in a typical homogeneous system, increasingly high amount of energies are required to achieve more and more pure systems.

What percentage of our nation is below poverty line

Around 30% of people are below poverty line. The correct interpretation of poverty and domestic abuse is that poverty(and not gender) increases domestic abuse. Poverty also results into higher suicide rates for e.g farmers in AP, MH e.t.c. Thus my contention is that it is the poverty which is the underlying cause and not the gender. This poverty leads many to commit crime, makes them go for suicides or for some to pass the buck(percolate it down) to family members in form of things like domestic violence/abuse. That is the overall picture. If you are strangling a section to retain all the sufferings just to itself using coercive means, the increasing pressure will only burst into explosion (in that section) one day. Coercive Legal means of tackling domestic violence are only adding to the problem.

So abuse happens because the victim did something to deserve the abuse

On the counter argument, Should I say the abuse happens because the other person is insane, has gone mad and thus every 10th man In India is mad. That there is no reaction without an action is more fundamental than any of the feminist theories.

if a woman beats up a man, then would you say the same thing...that she was just reacting to something he did?

I am afraid, that is exactly what happens in India. If a woman beats a man, people still claim that man must have done something wrong. I would suggest buy a DVD for the movie "Aaitraz".

Dear Observer...

With the kind of skewed logic you have demonstrated in #48, I think it is best for me conclude further discussions with you. On the parting note...

You said...

Because females are killed at birth. Heard of female infanticide ?

That is called "foeticide" and not infanticide.

When people like Hardy have nothing to say, they run, they flee or make digs at others brusquely to cover their dumbness. Such is the trait of one Mr Hardy.

Let me now Teach you the difference between female infanticide and female foeticide

Female foeticide: Sex-selective abortion is the targeted abortion of a fetus based upon its sex. This is done after a determination is made (usually by ultrasound but also rarely by amniocentesis or another procedure) that the fetus is of an undesired sex.
Reference : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_foeticide

Female infanticide: Female infanticide, the prevalent form of sex-selective infanticide, is the systematic killing of girls at or soon after birth. It normally occurs when a society values male children to the point that producing a female is considered dishonorable, shameful, or an unacceptable investment to the individuals. ( females killed at birth...and this is called INFANTICIDE only).)
Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_infanticide

I hope you had a good lesson for the day. If you had gone to school , college you would have learnt this but no you were after dowry!


I would suggest buy and do watch the movie "Mathrubhoomi - A nation without women"--a realistic view!

What happens if there are no women in a population of say 5,000 adolescent and unmarried menfolk ?
What happens if there had been no weddings in the village for Fifteen years ?
What happens if the male-female sex ratio falls drastically say 200 women for 1000 men ?
The movie explores these questions in a realistic way.

Not some crappy masala cheap D grade fictional movie you suggested. Reflects your cheap skewed dumb mentality.

First get your concepts of gender right!

Wikipedia has entry for "Ghosts" also. BTW, I was alluding to what is the hottest topic of the day and what you were were trying hard to focus upon i.e Female foeticide.

So sorry you could not be accommodative of what I was suggestive of even when I did realize what you were implied. Female infanticide stories are old and sold, the new happening thing is female foeticide.

Good....we got Mr Hardy's concepts clear.

Now coming back to the point and topic( since we cleared your basic concepts)

You said male chilren are more abused, do you know why? Because females are killed at birthand prior to birth. Heard of female infanticide and foeticide both ? There goes you endless explanations in the gutter.

You said mothers beat their sons...only beat...good. Fathers like the likes of sifers abandon their children and murder them that contributes to the ever inflating statistics of female infanticide

And yes, I did not start a gender war out here, you started it in your own comment and even justified it like a bravo and hell bent on convincing that males are victims too. Do not start a gender war.In a Violence there is only an abused and an abuser. Bringing gender dilutes the core issue of domestic violence. however, most likely it is always the male who is the perpetrator.


btw....wikipedia also has the the entry/ for gays. I know of a guy who married only to satisfy his parents needs but was actually a gay. He thought he will marry a simple girl and throw her at the corner to be a wife and this way keep his parents happy also. Later when she realised the dark truth, she knew he had only married her for her dowry, money and she made his life miserable. Then she found someone else, dumped her current gay like husband, and went after her dreams. The ex husband now lives in an illusion ( to keep himself happy) that he played a trick on his wife and got rid of her. He prefers to use the word trick to hide the fact that he was dumped.

Since your love to refer crappy masala cheap D grade fictional movie - Reflects your cheap skewed dumb mentality do go watch Honeymoon travels. There is a funny guy in there....

the new happening thing is female foeticide.

Kind of a joyful statment out there....I would call it a sadistic remark. Once again reflects your cruel thought process!

Female infanticide stories are old and sold

True.....so the result is the following now:

What happens if there are no women in a population of say 5,000 adolescent and unmarried menfolk ?
What happens if there had been no weddings in the village for Fifteen years ?
What happens if the male-female sex ratio falls drastically say 200 women for 1000 men ?

Ya...no wonder more and more guys are going the gay ways. No options left huh?

And finally

89% of DV against women goes unreported.

Only a mere 11% is reported

Nicely written Diya

Good observations Aditi, FF, Desimen and observor

And the siffies continue on another violent voyage hoping against hope to win one time. Thank god for the indian laws , otherwise there was no stopping them.

Hardy, so it is you this time around to face the muck? Wish you all the best

#55...May be you are right...

89% of 11%(which is 9.8%) cases are not reported to police because the people involved do not think it is worth it and they settle it among themselves after they realize(in time) that each of parties had his/her own role to play(and should be held accountable) in the bitterness that developed.

;) .

To Bring some clarity:
----------------------
Here are some basics regarding Domestic Violence or Intimate Partner Violence.

The Violence can be:

1) Unidirectional (perpetrated by male or female)
2) Bidirection (perpertrated by both)

The Violence can be:

1) Mental/Emotional
2) Physical

The Violence can be:

1) Female initiated
2) Male initiated.

The Violence can be:

1) by Aggressor.
2) by Victim.
(This is important as a male/female who got mentally/physically abused for prolonged period can turn severely aggressive.)

----------

Any study on Domestic Violence has to take all these aspects into account and the study/statistics have to be comprehensive.

If we take only a piecewise/one-sided data and make sweeping generalisations, then the problem do not get solved.

My own study with literature from India and west has following conclusions (you are free to agree or disagree):


1) Men are physically more violent than women (when they are agressors or victims).

The physical abuse by men on women is: 75%
The physical abuse by women on men is: 25%

This abuse includes, slapping, kicking, hitting, throwing an object, stabbing etc.

2) Women are mentally/emotionally more violent than men.

The emotional abuse by women is: 75%
The emotional abuse by men is: 25%

Emotional abuse can mean continuous insults, disparaging remarks, angry outbursts etc etc.

3) Who Initiates domestic violence more?

Here women take the cake.

Women initiate domestic violence in about 66% of all case of DV by men and women.

This is done by emotional abuse or mild physical abuse.

4) How much of domestic violence is unidirectional and how much is bidirectional?

By directional DV is about 50% to 70% based on society, culture etc.

Unidirectional DV is 30% to 50%.

5) Who is more likely to report domestic violence?

Women compared to men are more likely to report Domestic Violence to family members, service providers and women are more likely to seek medical support.

Now, imagine, a woman abuses, threatens or insults a man every day continuously for 6 months of one year and shouts loudly (so that neighbours can hear) when re retorts. That abused man one fine day can say, enough is enough. The woman will say,"come hit me, I will call police, then you and your prostitute mother will understand". The flood gates open, the man bashes her up and says, "fine, go and call police".

In emotionally turbulent situations, men generally tend to escape either by leaving the room/house or by getting silent suddenly and go to a shell. This behaviour can often provoke a mentally abusive women. So, this cycle often sprials out of control leading to physical violence by male.

If the spiral goes completely out of control, then the woman get get severely bashed up or even get killed followed by suicide or attempt to suicide by the man.

So, providing Domestic Violence support to only women and giving tools to women to threaten men without giving an escape route for men can get very dangerous for women (and also men).

It is very easy to say, if men are emotionally weak, then that is not a woman's problem. The Suicidal man who can kill himself, can kill others(abusers) as well.

So far as villeges are concerned, it is a myth that the women in villeges can not abuse. It is also a myth that muslim women do not abuse men.

I have also refered to some of the research by Murray Strauss.

Actor Christian Slator got 10 stiches when his wife threw an object on him.

Another simple way to get data on abuse on men by wives is to just look at your own family and extended family (uncles, aunts and relatives).

One can easily see the abuse patterns and find who is mentally abusive whom.

Of course, often we neglects our aunts who insult our uncles in a function or so. We think that to be natural (after all men are strong!!).

In a family, children are conditioned to be receptive to violence against mother by father than the violence against father by mother.

If mother is calling names and nagging all the while, children will ignore thinking that after all father is strong and he is capable of defending himself.

Way to go Observer!! im standin(writin) right behind ya n cheering!
Thank u Anu:)

to bring more clarity

section 498A of the IPC is directly or indirectly responsible for:

* the armenian genocide
* the resurgence in suicide bombers
* traffic deaths in shanghai
* global warming

and (drum roll)

* the indian women (and men) who speak out for justice subverted and denied

Simple question:

Who prefers a male child?
A father or a mother?

Why will someone like to have a girl child in family if observer, Diya, Anu and all claim that 100% of all women get abused in their life and every girl born will get abused in her life.

Will declaring women as victims and men as perpetrators stop or increase female foeticide?


Please note, data shows urban public (and not the religious traditical villege public) which is indulging in female foeticide.

Renuka Choudhury has been brave enough to propose Registration of all pregnancies. This must start just the day Pratibha Patil addresses a nation. This must be followed by special licenses only selected doctors for abortions.

Radical feminists: Keep representing women as victims and keep contributing to female foeticide.

If 100% of women are victims (as logical, rational observers claims being cheered by a harem), that implies Pratibha, Renuka all are also victims. Why are their husbands roaming freely?

'the only certainty in life is (that) there is no certainty'

Temporal,

If there is no certainty in life, then never take responsibility. Blame men.

If there is no certainty in life, then never take responsibility. Blame men.

am tad disappointed

you are doing alright blaming women or indulge in delusions of grandeur

ps:

read 'indulging' for indulge

Siffers are not blaming just women. Siffers blame men and women who are responsible for feminazism. Don't worry, the bamboos are everywhere and everyone will have their turn.

ah Godwin?

Temporal,

Its certainly delusion, when people do not feel themselves to be victims and take on cleaning the feminazi muck.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/feminazi

Anu...
!!!!!!!!!!!And the siffies continue on another violent voyage hoping against hope to win one time. Thank god for the indian laws , otherwise there was no stopping them.!!!!!!!!1

siffers are the creation of biased laws. siffers are here just because of these laws.

now every woman seems happy...but remember kyonki saas bhi kabhi bahu thi..is the old story.
the new story is kyonki...bahu bhi hone wali saas the.

Diya....

thanks for the comment. I guess it is time to teach Mr hardy some maths ...basic maths what say?

<89% of the cases go unreported by women who are victims of DV- for various reasons like lack of knowledge of the laws, lack of resources and fear of the stigma


Temporal....way to go, cheeering you all the way

Kya chal rahan hain? Same old mara mari? :-)

People who think and communicate in binary should not attempt to solve algebraic problems. The leap required for domain switch may be too large for those ninnies.

BTW, I did the math for you in #55. Somebody in feminist wing !!!...#70 is looking for help on her algebra.

C ... ;).

It always feels nice teasing these souls. He he...Who said eve teasing is bad ;).

For someone who never went to school or college because sat in his mommy lap hoping one day when he gets married will receive a handsome fat dowry. Guys like these are mere products who sell themselves in the market and when things go wrong find themselves doing the rounds like hardcore criminals of the courts. People like these dimwits never have to worry about math, they enjoy free money like skunks who mooch of the others all their lives.

Some feeble attempt in #50 where his dimwitted pulp that sits between his hears was put to use. Thanks to wikipedia in # 51 he did get some insight like a slap that is not heard hurts more. And then again when he left his mommy'a lap he tried idiotically to show another of his asinine skills in #55 which he calls algebra .....phewwwwwww. !

Let me once again refer him to wikipedia and tell him what algebra means Algebra ---Together with geometry, analysis, combinatorics, and number theory, algebra is one of the main branches of mathematics.
Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algebra

Baby Hardy , any number you puke out on this forum is not algebra or maths. Please put the numbers that you learnt from mommy only in putting a prize on yourself. That was a free advise.

and please learn some teasing from temporal--he is the best at it.

You do not even match...look your buddy siffer with his loooooonnnnng explanations and one witty word from temporal that drove siffer up the walls.

Have a goodnight sleep with your buddy!

Do not start stammering in # 73....it is the sign of nervousness

You actually meant to say " Whoever said teasing is bad...?"

What you said in a hurry and nervousness was "He he...Who said eve teasing is bad ;)."

Please refer to DV act okay, you do not want to do another round of courts(awww... I forgot that is your second home.) Why use your minuscule brains in playing tricks again. Okay carry on Baby Hardy...anything that makes you giggle...as long as you are happy. Hehheheeeee

Enough of feminist Morchas, bra burning, paid semi-naked prostitute dance, false statistics and court furniture breaking in this country.

What they do is what they get back.

They recruit young girls in schools and colleges with lies and false stories to act as mindless propaganda pawns.

Girija Vyas claims, adulterous women are victims where as adulterous men are criminals. What kind of logic is that?

Feminist bloggers are convincing the world that a 4-year old boy and a 8-year old boy tried to pour kerosene for an attempt to burn a woman.

http://ramani-sirkalisnews.blogspot.com/2007/07/devilish-acts.html

Reading newspaper stories, every single bitch puts in her 498a complaint to police, "Husband, in-laws and the infants in the house poured kerosene on me to burn me". Then court issues non-bailable arrest warrents against infants.

Newspapers report it and feminist bloggers will convince the whole world that even male infants are trying to burn women and hence they need to be jailed.

4-year old boy helped in pouring kerosene on a 30-year old fat creature to burn her.

This is not delusion?

A paid drugged prostitute goes in undergarments in the street with a Baseball bat and the whole world claims Indians are brutal scoundrels.

Now, we have to trust all these illogical, irrational morons and keep toeing the politically correct lines.

A 14-year old boy was driven to suicide by female teacher in Bangalore, the criminal teacher was not even arrested as the school used its connection to suppress the whole story.

Why will minister for women and children care for any child committing suicide?

Why will National Human Rights Commission care as they are in any case busy trying to find out, which paid prostitute is doing naked dance in which street of the country?

It is not we the siffians, but the national human rights commission, the feminists and the politically correct creatures, who are illogical, irrational and mindless monkeys.

These creatures will never learn when one explains them with folded hands.

The whole country has gone fascist way thanks to the sleep walking mindless clones, who claim themselves to be the intelligent educated creatures, who have done nothing in last 30 years except just talking.

Sham President Zindabad:)

http://desicritics.org/2007/07/16/001219.php

Of course if the election of a women President is symbolic of women empowerment, it is a sham empowerment!

July 24, 2007


India: Corrupt Radical Feminist President Appointed
David R. Usher

Pratibha Patil has just been "elected" President of India by votes cast by national lawmakers and state legislators. Patil, was hand-picked by Congressional Parliamentary leader Sonia Ghandi, a powerful feminist who rode into power on the back of Nehru-Ghandi family, and who has been the woman jiggling knobs behind the curtain of the Prime Minister's office for many years.

How Patil could have passed the "smell test" points to the nature of corrupt politics in India. Patil has a legacy of financing radical feminist initiatives and lining the pockets of relatives, financed by the failure of her bank which she founded in 1973, which actually managed to achieve a negative net worth.

Patil is also implicated in a cover-up of a murder involving her brother, which has never been investigated. Congress explained it all away over the objections of the BJP: Spokesman Ravi Shankar Prasad said "There has been a persistent attempt to prevent a fair investigation into such a high-profile murder. Therefore, it is important that Patil must herself respond to these disturbing questions as these facts relate to her as also the resultant questions".

She is in trouble for making a rather hefty feminist prevarication -- claiming that the Indian tradition of Purdah (covering the body) was created to "protect women from Mughai invaders" , as justification for ending the practice.

Indian bloggers have collected a fair amount of information on the corruption that led to this rubber-stamp appointment.

Patil's "election" is already being questioned by Indian pundits and the Wall Street Journal , and with massive justification. Young, educated Indians who supported another candidate are tremendously displeased. One activist said, "We, the youth of India, feel cheated by the political establishment"

India, a nation featuring a world-reknowned marriage culture, was perhaps even strengthened by illegalization of the dowry system in 1961. Yet, despite what radical feminists say, dowry is rarely practiced in India today. Like their American teachers, Indian feminists pretend dowry abuses are hiding under every other rock because it scares politicians into doing their bidding.

When mixed with Indian dowry laws, which extend liability to the husband's family and assets, the accused has the burden to prove that the alleged act did not occur. It is widely known that Section 498 is widely abused , yet no-one in the legislature has lifted a finger to do anything about it (neither has the U.S. Congress addressed the widespread abuses of VAWA).

Under 498a, suicide or unnatural death of a woman during the first seven years of marriage is deemed a dowry death. Any complaint of violence can send the husband and his entire family to jail for years while the case is heard. Materialistic women and their families use these laws to extort monies from the husband and his family. Upon their release, a divorce ensues.

These laws also make accepting wedding gifts from the bride's family dangerous. In the West, families often give gifts of property or cash to the wedding couple. In India, acceptance of any gift from the bride's family can easily be a set-up for a con game demanding a large "reverse dowry" subsequently extorted from the husbands family.

As in America (where there are no federal protections against abuse of domestic violence laws), provisions requiring punishment of those who give dowry are not enforced against the bride's family.

Like American feminists, who pretend that America is still living in a pre-19th-amendment era, India's feminists pretend that today's highly educated women are seen as "burdens", thus justifying enactment and rigid enforcement of radical laws permitting feminist financial and social predation.

Indian feminists are now attempting to "reserve" 1/3 of all legislative seats for women on the theory that women make better representatives. We have yet to see a woman legislator in India who goes beyond destroying marriage in India. A fine example of this is the 498a domestic violence law passed in 1983, featuring mandatory arrest without investigation, and prosecution without bail.

These are the products of Nehru-Ghandi feminism. Pratibha Patil is a very dangerous woman. Women's groups are already lining up to meet with her.

Recent changes in India strongly predict it will suffer similar consequences the United States experienced after "going feminist" in the 1960's. Feminism is always followed by rapid increases in divorce, social violence, crime, child abuse and neglect, and an economy sandbagged by tremendous social expenditures.

India, which is not as rich as America or as politically stable, cannot withstand the consequences which are presently bringing America to its political knees.

Like the political elite in America, Indian politicians insist on pursuing a highly destructive path of faux patriarchy without regard for the tremendous human wreckage and economic destruction that always follows in the wake of feminism.

But the consequences in India may be far more severe: young Muslim men driven out of society in India are perhaps more likely to end up terrorists than simple drug dealers or street criminals.

Those who wish to end terrorism need to be working to end the reign of world feminism as their highest priority. Feminism has clearly stated its intent to destroy marriage and place men in peonage to feminist government. This is the primary driver of hate of western culture by hard-right muslims and their conscripts.

I am not saying that America is responsible for terrorism. I am pointing out that an unnecessary situation of tremendous polarity exists between hyper-feminist societies and hyper-patriarchal cultures. The collision of values has resulted in an expanding "world warm war" we all know is tremendously expensive and perhaps impossible to fight at any cost because it is simply impossible to secure every square inch of the planet.

Both the West and East are wrong. It is our responsibility to end the feminist war on marriage and religion - now over forty five years old. We must reform laws in America, restore marriage values, end no-fault divorce, reform the Violence Against Women Act, and require shared parenting when divorce is necessary. When we have accomplished these tasks, much of the reason driving Muslim fanaticism will evaporate.

Clearly, world peace cannot possibly occur so long as we continue exporting radical feminism in the name of "Democracy".

-------------------------------------------------
David R. Usher is Senior Policy Analyst for the True Equality Network and President of the American Coalition for Fathers and Children, Missouri Coalition

[EDITED - IRRELEVANT]

Correction...#70 is looking for help on her elementary algebra. ;).

which includes multiplying and adding numbers.

She finds it .89*11 ~= .98 incomprehensible. BTW the useless multiple of .89 has been made available to us through her prized statistical studies(on randomizations ;)).

**************************************

Gosh people do not even understand scorn. I made that in 50, 52, 57, 72. No worry, there are people who still believe in bride burning and Ghosts. Good for 'humble husbands', who got rid of them in time.

Please refer to DV act okay, you do not want to do another round of courts

Well DV act at ridiculing you is applicable on only those male(S) with whom you have lived in shared household or they have been related to you by consanguinity, marriage or relationship in the nature of marriage(a.k.a with whom you have slept... :) .

The word 'EMPOWERMENT OF WOMEN" has been thoroughly manipulated and abused today. No body knows what it really means. It has been used to justify all kinds of ideas, some of which on the face of it, seem to be utterly ridiculous .
During the advent of feminism, empowerment was rightly referred to denote education and economic independence of women and ushering in a life of dignity and respect for women. Then the degeneration started. After that, we started seeing "empowerment" being linked to irresponsibility, arrogant attitude, adultery, rampant pre-marital sex, sexual decadence among teenagers, divorces on flimsy grounds, abusing and demeaning men, attacking morals, girls going on drinking binge, prostitution and what not!!!. The list is endless and keeps on growing by the day.
The more she plunges into the depths of degradation, the more vehemently she tries to justify that she is "empowering" herself. At the end you realise that she has only cheated herself. It she herself who has emerged as the greatest loser.
I believe we have to decide as to what denotes "empowerment" of women. Whether it means leading a life of respect and glory by being educated, wise, balanced , responsible and economically self sufficient or it denotes rampant teen sex, adultery, prostitution , irresponsible attitude etc.

who does not want more empowerment?

and

why see empowerment through gender-lens only

von siffer criticism appears to be righteous indignation

they would like it for themselves while vociferously denying it to others

The point boils down to what is empowerment? Is it the common woman who will decide what it means or is it feminists who will decide for the common woman as what empowerment means. Is it not the case that the ordinary woman is made to see the world and to interpret it from the lens of feminists. Has she the right to judge for herself?

The point boils down to what is empowerment? Is it the common woman who will decide what it means or is it feminists who will decide for the common woman as what empowerment means. Is it not the case that the ordinary woman is made to see the world and to interpret it from the lens of feminists. Has she the right to judge for herself?

Hey Temporal,
Have u by any chance done a degree in english hons.????

btw, i obviously agree wth what ever u said...

#83, "they would like it for themselves while vociferously denying it to others"

It is exactly the opposite. It is feminists who want empowerment of women (whatever that means to them) at the expense of men's rights. You don't need to have a degree in any field to understand that. But some people need a bamboo up theirs to understand it.

nandu:

go to the excellent Usage Note for empowerment

unknown:

were you referring to the kama sutra re: the bamboo?...(that position was not for the faint of heart;)

diya:

schools and colleges did their best to spoil me ... resilient me somehow survived the teachers' best intentions:)

nandu:

go to the excellent Usage Note for empowerment

unknown:

were you referring to the kama sutra re: the bamboo?...(that position was not for the faint of heart;)

diya:

schools and colleges did their best to spoil me ... resilient me somehow survived the teachers' best intentions:)

Josse Says the following at post No. 45:
"Hey Gope....You are a crazy old man...get your facts straight! Pratibha has made sure that she will get all the escaping convicts back to India who are hiding in USA and UK and she is going to give siffers a very very hard time, including oldies who are equally involved in the crime".

Hey Josse:
The post No.79 is for mentally retarted persons like you to understand the correct situation.

Hey hardy

I read the bunkum you tried to paste in # 81--and did such a BAD job in pasting. You cannot paste, you don't know basic maths, you don't know algebra or even elementary numbers and you don't even understand wikipedia. It took you ONE full day to revert back to me? Were you nervous...I am sorry I did not mean to scare you away. Take it easy and chill. The person who helps you write...was she out of town? It is evident from that you take a lot of effort to first copy from MS Word and then come back here to paste and that too did a terrible job in pasting--it can hardly be read. Not accepted.

Baby Hardy , any number you puke out on this forum is not algebra or maths. Please put the numbers that you learnt from mommy only in putting a prize on yourself. That was a free advise. You cannot even add-up and your logic is impeded.

I hope you know numbers from 1 to 100 so let me try once more....

89% cases of DV against women go unreported due to lack of knowledge, resources or awareness

11% cases of DV against women go reported who are aware of their rights and laws.

And if you still cannot add up ...then I have an advise for you Mr Gope -has written (oops pasted---and did a good job) for mentally retarted ( oops spelling mistake) people in # 79---please do read up, copy it and paste it on some other link.

For some inspiration do read some commonsensical comments by Mr Temporal ...enjoy :)

if X (which I assume even a jack ass like you knows is not 100) is the total number of women suffering from DV, then

since as per you 89% cases of DV against women do not get reported

so Y = 0.89 * X = cases of DV against women go unreported due to lack of knowledge, resources or awareness. 0.89 was a out of the blue multiple but was provide by you. (1)

Now if X = (11% of total women) = annual count of total no of women in the country who get subjected to DV(as per NFHS data) survey then

substituting 11% for X in (1), we get

Y = 0.89 * (11% of total women) = 9.8% of total women.

It can not get more basic than that.

BTW, all the day I was wondering what could be wrong with your.

P.S your pseudonyms keep changing...from observor to "Reader" to "woman" to "anon" and it continues ad infinitum. As for your english please spell atleast your pseudonyms correctly. "observor" is
"Observ'e'r" unless you show me some wikipedia entry for 'observor' ;). Nevermind it is not your fault, you were born with those disabilities.

Good job hardy......do come tomorrow and read your retarded comments.

Check this out

0.89 was a out of the blue multiple but was provide ....easy boy easy...type slowly and carefully. do not copy...you'll make mistakes.

And talking about disabilities....you know wat gUy...check yourself out. BIG MISTAKE.
I am so glad you pasted your comments well this time

And thanks but no thanks for the so many names....the anon you mention is one of your nicks ...not ours.


I know when I have to be a reader and when i have to be an obeservor.....get the meaning gUy...time is the essence!!

To A DIMWIT(S)

89% (eighty nine) cases of DV against women go unreported due to lack of knowledge, resources or awareness

11% ( eleven) cases of DV against women go reported who are aware of their rights and laws.

Please note: these are percentages...not a price tag on some gUy on display for sale in the name of dowry

And if you still cannot add up ...then I have an advise for you Mr Gope -has written (oops pasted---and did a good job) for mentally retarted ( oops spelling mistake) people in # 79---please do read up, copy it and paste it on some other link.

For some inspiration do read some commonsensical comments by Mr Temporal ...enjoy :)


And if you still do not get it...then Madam Pratibha Patil...will show you her way! Soon very soon....how about you go start another bogus crybaby group....misuseofdvact....it will keep you busy.

REMINDER FOR EVERYONE ON THIS THREAD

1: Please refrain from personal attacks/insults
2: Avoid lengthy cut-n-paste jobs: just provide the link

violators will be sweetly edited out

Hey Hardy...Do not get into the fuss of explaining them the simple multiplication.

They did a similar foot in the mouth when couple of weeks back,when Sumanth told them that 80% of people in SIFF who have children are actively fighting for child custody and that 25% of people in SIFF have children. They got confused between 80 and 25 and like a retard raised objection about duplicity of numbers.

It seems our Mrs "Reader" is disguised as one Mr "Vinod" then.

TOI Picked up this article and published it with a bit of changes here and there.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Editorial/CYNICAL_CONTRARIAN_Women_on_top_Poof/articleshow/2234039.cms

Thats great!!

This confirms the SIFF's assertion that the writings and views of about 5000 to 10,000 feminists or budding feminists, dictates the content related to "gender issues" in India.

As most of this content is biased and one-sided half truths, these 10,000 feminists need to contained or at least made to stop spreading radical alarmist half truths.

That is the very reason SIFF takes on feminist bloggers and writers in Internet as the contents of newspapers have their sources in Internet. Most journalists are very young and they have little time to do research and hence they turn to Internet.

So SIFF's Internet campaigns are towards these sources, which keep spreading lies and half truths.

Even a few days back, I observed NDTV repeating the lie that 60% of Indian women face DV. The same lie was published in SepiaMutiny and we opposed it.

It is disgusting that large number of people indulge in lies and write half truths. We do not think lies and half truths can ever improve a society or empower anyone (say women).

Publication of this article in TOI makes us to stick to search and engage feminists in Internet. Because, it is the feminists in Internet, who mostly dictate what is fed to common people of the country.

Today, western news agencies contact SIF when they want to write any article on dowry or workplace harassment.

Sniffer, the TOI article is by the same author, I believe, if you'd cared to check.

The Prz is Another Puppet like the Prime Minister of the Italian sonia and the Gandhi Family!!

[EDITED - PERSONAL]

[EDITED - PERSONAL - ip'S BANNED]

[EDITED - PERSONAL]

Aaman,

I know that the article is by same author.
I assume editing is done by an editor. That why I said, it has some changes.

The point here is that blogs are influencing the content of mainstream media in a bigger way.

We are concerned at the alarmism created by feminists in the nervous system of the society (ie. media and internet).

I do agree that women issues are important and women's empowerment is important. But, that is very different from propagating lies, half truths creating a panic in society.

Alarmism and panic drives people to work in the urgency domain. But, this kind of working is often adhoc in nature and is highly inefficient. Prolonged period of firefighting can cause enoromous wear and tear in the society.

There is enough food in the country for everyone to eat. There are enough brains to think and come with some meaningful solutions to social problems.

In stead, like a bunch of fools the parliament members and feminists depend on a criminals in police force and a pathetic court system to bring social transformation!!

Heyy see who we elected President....

Going by the dirt Indian Express has been digging up it appears that Ms Patil hasn't been completely above board when she disbursed loans to her kin when she was a director of a bank..The paper reports..
"Four years ago, when the Reserve Bank of India cancelled the licence of the bank that UPA Presidential nominee Pratibha Patil set up in the name of women empowerment, waiving loans for her relatives wasnt the only irregularity it detected...." here's the complete story...

Patil was aware of her bank mess, top defaulters her kin

http://www.indianexpress.com/story/202794.html

Ms Patil is quoyed as saying that she had a"divine premonition about a larger responsibility" ...she was referring to her nomination for President.....where was her "divine premonition" when her kin were about to default??All said and done we CANNOT have someone with less than a perfect record as OUR FIRST CITIZEN..

and as First Citizen she cannot stand trial for any previous crimes.....howzzzat for immunity?....

The point here is that blogs are influencing the content of mainstream media in a bigger way.

perhaps that is the way it should be!

chicken or egg?

why should not both sides take their case to the public, media, parliament?

aaman thanks:)

Diya,

Your article is to the point in saying that the presidential poll was a sham. It is equally true that the claims of women's empowerment in light of Mrs. Patil's election is blatant nonsense.

Where I part ways with you is on your claims on Lakshmi beaten to pulp etc.

This is where your 'creativity' took over, facts be damned. You ARE a creative person, aren't you?

Agreed that there are incidents of women being persecuted. Agreed too that this has been a trend even in the past.

BUT, the situation today is not as bleak as you make it out to be.

You want to squeeze sympathy using our patriarchal past.

This, only to further YOUR own power hungry agenda of em'power'ment today.

Those who should be empowered are far removed from the ones who clamour for it. Hijacking another's grief to reach your selfish ends of power play?

There's another side to the coin. For many young women today, ego driven greed for power takes precedence over everything else.

They trample over men by crying wolf at the drop of a hat, and misuse laws that were really not meant for the liberated likes of you.

Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely - an old adage.

Feminism is all about power, not equality. There is a difference! However, power corrupts....

Dear Sandeep and all those who have blasted me over being overtly "feminist"...
ok..i did write about women of india and their woes which acc. to most of you is a complete sham...
I want to ask a simple question...
would you all have the same reaction if you all did not perceive me to THE FEMINIST???
I wrote about my worries about the situation of women because i felt it was relevent in the article i was writing...
does that mean that no care about anyone else other than women???
just because i am a "feminist" or shall i say a women... does that mean i care not even a zilch about men and their woes??
i do agree that some women do misuse their "empowerment"...men misuse power too...thats human nature... does that mean we should all stop working for betterment of humanity???

I don't find any thing worth reading in this article. [EDITED]

Any ways for your info - men have bigger brains and 6 times more grey matter.

***More over all these feminist are there because few idiotic men are supporting them. When men stop it all this phenomenon evaporates - and women will go back to their homes.

For science to progress we need intelligent men - not sarcastic women.

Buzz, lipika, Aisha, Anon, Siffer, Sniffer hardy etc etc yawm...the same creatures everywhere!

Diya,

I am exhilerated to read your wonderful achievement- publication in Times of India.

You are certainly an accomplished British Council Creative Writer.

Very well done,

Steven Baker

Diya,

You wrote:
"i do agree that some women do misuse their "empowerment"...men misuse power too...thats human nature..."

Yes. Some men misuse power. That is why other men pass laws and also punish these men.

Now, some women misuse their power. How often do you see women (or men) questioning it?

For the same crime, how many people recommend same punishment to both males and females?

You only advocated about preferential treatment for women in one of the earlier comment.

Why should women get preferential treatment?

Just think of the punishment given to a woman who drives her husband to suicide.....

Do not say that there are no such women in this vast country.

These women never get punished. Leave punishment, they are not even arrested.

Feminism talks about equality. In that space, where is the room for preferential treatment?

Feminism is valid only when you take the patriarchal notion of "male disposability" for granted.

Societies oppress both gender in different ways. As a humanist, one has to see the situation in totality and not in a piecewise manner.

You write, women are beaten to pulp in India. Are not men beaten to pulp or hacked to death in India? May be you will say, they are hacked to death by men and hence it does not concern you.

All through evolution of the society, the humanity has to face harsh nature. It is men who mostly stood against the nature to protect the women and children. It is men who mostly fought against wild beasts to save the community.

The violent tendencies of men come from their constant engagement with a harsh nature. It is not that men became violent only to harass women.

When men are not given to even express their emotions or even cry since childhood, how can a society think of reforming men?

Every second child in India faces abuse. Tell me, how many write about it?

Most elders also face abuse. How many write about it?

Society's progress when they eliminate abuse against everyone. But, today the claim is that only women face abuse and once they are empowered the nation will progress.

How?

When children grow up in single parent or no parent families and face abuse, I do not understand how a nation can progress.

We are not at all convinced that an increase in divorce rate, single parenting and abortions will bring progress to the nation.

Statistics show, children from single mothers have 2 to 8 times chance of being school drop outs, being raped, being abused, taking to drugs in US.

Is that how we create a progressive nation?


http://mensnewsdaily.com/2007/07/22/india-corrupt-radical-feminist-president-appointed/

Breaking of family system will hit all families very soon. No one will be spared. We will see how consumerism, hedonism and intolerance can create a progressive nation.

Diya,

If I leave the content related to feminism ie, the beating to pulp aspect, the article has some meaning.

Congress Party has a history of using puppets. This is a political party in which internal elections are rarely held.

In short, the party is a dictatorship just like North Korea where a family rules.

Congress is also the party which played divisive politics much before BJP or BSP came into picture. It is congress which created the religious vote bank.

Today, it wants gender votes. It wants to ride on feminism. But, it will pay a big price as people are ready even before it creates that vote bank.

von siffers:

justice is blind (read gender-neutral)

in democratic societies laws protect the meek and the weak against the excesses and tyranny of the mighty and the powerful

the von siffer tribe is hell bent on achieving the reverse

temporal
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!in democratic societies laws protect the meek and the weak against the excesses and tyranny of the mighty and the powerful

the von siffer tribe is hell bent on achieving the reverse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

if it is true....men should be protected in india.because men became more vulnarable than woman.

dear sniffer..
i had vowd not to read your comments...but i hv finally decided to break it...
i realized that my preferential treatment comment had been a bit rash.. this was owing to the fact that i had no idea that i was going to meet such wonderful, open-minded and rational people like u!

@Steven Baker.
thank u soooooooo mch sir!:)

Diya,

We the SIFF members know that women have more open minds than men. Also, women have a greater chance of questioning their beliefs than men.

If Patriarchy has to be defeated, then men must also be liberated from patriarchy. The question is, how many men want themselves or others to get out of clutches of patriarchy?

In today's world anger and violence are unnecessary as there is enough for everyone. There is abundance every where.

Today, Congress wants to divide nation on the basis of gender. It wants gender votes after religious votes are exhausted. A gender war will be more harmful than a communal war as the faultlines are drawn in the middle of every house.

Can our society handle another internal war? We already have communal wars, caste wars, maoist violence. Can the society handle a gender war?

Sonia Gandhi has now declared her intentions clearly.

http://in.news.yahoo.com/070726/48/6io85.html

--------------------------------
Cong most pro-women party: Sonia
--------------------------------
A day after Pratibha Patil was sworn in as the first woman President of India, Congress President Sonia Gandhi on Thursday said "no other party on earth" had given so much representation to women as the Congress had.

Temporal,

You are the most logical person on earth.

"in democratic societies laws protect the meek and the weak against the excesses and tyranny of the mighty and the powerful"

And all men's families are mighty and powerful where as all women's families are meek and weak.

Guys stop making a fool of your self

There is a lot of knee Jerk Reaction on Prathibha Patil . There is no anti male sentiment from pratibha Patil .


Her being suspected of a murder long time back is no ground for opossing her her presidency .In politics people do indulge in lot of mudslinging.
She deserves being a president just like any citizen
Give her a chance.Its up to her to talk for every decent citizen of India
We have absolutely no idea about her
We have had male presidents who do nothing in the arena .
Maybe a women president might be better for us.

Bigg,

You have copied the text of one of the founders of the SIFF in comment #120. He is actually my Guru and I am also a founder.

I agree with what the big boss said. Pratibha Patil being a woman carries no risk of criticising radicals than APJ Abdul Kalam who is a man and that too a bachelor. His hands were tied.

We are waiting for the President's website to come up with new look and with new email address. Then, we will ask Pratibha Patil about Fascist laws and concentration camps that jail innocent elders.

She will surely get 300 mails per day. We will be the first ones to welcome her in Internet channel.

APJ Abdul Kalam read our mails and said, there are "horror" men in the net when asked about dowry law misuse at Bangalore and passed the question to judges.

Pratibha will have more degrees of freedom.

So, Pratibha can certainly be better than a male president.

Real dialogue in the Women Cell(in police station), in front of 10 other people including Assistant Commissioner of Police.
----------------------

wife's family member: give us 15 lakhs.

husband: what for?

wife's family member: she slept with you for 3 months.
----------

I got this is Yahoogroup saveindianfamily. I am not at all surprised at the family members of women who ask money like this (may be to solve their own monetary problems).

Rs.15,00,000 divided by 90 is Rs.16,667/-.

So, it is about Rs.16,000 per night.

If we all support women's empowerment any further, then the per night rate can easily touch Rs.40,000/- (ie. $1000)

$1000 per night??!!

That will make sex in marriage costliest in the world. With such rates, Indian men can better choose a harem from International markets.

115 and 119:

justice should be blind...and everyone should apply the necessary legal remedies and pressures to remind the judiciary if it waivers

(your conjectures aside):)

#123

Does 'everyone' here include you and feminist clones ?

why are von-siffers suddenly pretending to be comprehension challenged?

the following is simple and to the point

justice is blind (read gender-neutral)

in democratic societies laws protect the meek and the weak against the excesses and tyranny of the mighty and the powerful

the von siffer tribe is hell bent on achieving the reverse

so, what are you doing to put pressure on judiciary or you feel its not waivering ?

am a neutral by stander

perhaps this is lost on some folks

:)

you guys want to make waves...the place for that should be the courts

or

if you are not happy with the courts, then spend your energy in electing parliamentarians who can change the laws that you perceive are wrong

or

break the laws and like the naxalites ... but as i mentioned earlier they respect and treat women as equals...

in the bile and hatred you spew off that would be a bitter pill for you to swallow

To all timepass Sniffers and # 121,

So basically you helpless good for nothing men are waiting for a woman president to help you and help your org. Forget it! Per you there is gender discrimination...so all the more reason Kalam should have sided with your gender. Why did he not? Coz he was at risk?

And now you wait for a woman president to help you helpless souls. Interesting!! Everyone has a right to see dreams--carry one. You want dowry, free money and expect help from NCW and now from the President?

Anyway, Madam Pratibha will make sure all laws are gender neutral and implemented too and an ideal example of that is the 498a law which arrests MILs and SILs who are women too. Crime is a crime and equal for everyone irrespective of age, gender and old age and pregnant sisters---we NCW, Renuka and Girija support that totally and have said that time and again.

Your sob sob false stories of pregnant sisters, old parents are old and used out. That is only a camouflage to cover the truth and your most feeble attempt to get attention

You can ask Pratibha what you have to and send her 3000 emails, we will make sure those are not paid heed too, just the way Mr Kalam never paid attention to your 300000 emails.

While you guys are busy on the internet we were doing our work, action on the field,- we got DV act last year to prevent abuse on women by men, MIL and SIL. We also told you and gave you guys hints that we are working but you guys mistook that you "silenced us and feminist wings are quiet" coz of you. Keep dreaming! Those were all your wishful thinking that we put in your heads so you could be happy with the lolly pop. We were always pulling the strings.

You guys say that Mr Kalam could not take a risk, it is actually you guys who cannot take the risk coz you all are cowards. Kalam actually said that there are many" horrible guys and ghostly( refer false) stories on the internet "coz he tooooo was fed up with your nonsense. Mr Kalam was/is a wonderful president and did a lot of good to the poor and children and society.

Now for the next 5 years we will bring significant positive changes period, and make sure all abuse and violence from the society, marriage, workplace, streets and dowry menace is completely eradicated. Men cannot abuse women anymore, at work, at marriage or on the streets or even on the internet for that matter. Every human being will be treated with respect and equality.

You can carry your shabby worthless internet activities while we work on the field, behind the scenes.

For the next 1 week we are on a well deserved vacation and will meet you on this thread...until our next project. Watch out!

my dear ncw ( i don't think u are really from ncw)

!!!!!!!!!!!!!Now for the next 5 years we will bring significant positive changes period, and make sure all abuse and violence from the society, marriage, workplace, streets and dowry menace is completely eradicated.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

huh!..very nice story. carry on your FIELD work. But one thing, you said that this 498a is gender neutral because by that law MIL and SIL are also arrested. really i can't stop laughing. According to you..in future men will not abuse woman, but woman can abuse woman am i right..(MIL, SIL and of course men by wife using the false dowry cases)carry on...

And one thing, SIFF is not working on internet, it is working on FILD too...

!!!!!!!!!!Every human being will be treated with respect and equality.!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

that means in 5 years you are amending 498a, and DV act, irrespective of this it is not possible you too know this...very nice step carry on...

we hope the last sentence..every human being...., will be work very quickly.

my dear final word....success ( i don't think u are really from ncw)

!!!!!!!!!!!!!Now for the next 5 years we will bring significant positive changes period, and make sure all abuse and violence from the society, marriage, workplace, streets and dowry menace is completely eradicated.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

huh!..very nice story. carry on your FIELD work. But one thing, you said that this 498a is gender neutral because by that law MIL and SIL are also arrested. really i can't stop laughing. According to you..in future men will not abuse woman, but woman can abuse woman am i right..(MIL, SIL and of course men by wife using the false dowry cases)carry on...

And one thing, SIFF is not working on internet, it is working on FILD too...

!!!!!!!!!!Every human being will be treated with respect and equality.!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

that means in 5 years you are going to amending 498a, and DV act, irrespective of this amendments to these laws,it is not possible you too know this...very nice step carry on...

we hope the last sentence..every human being...., will be work very quickly.

"Crime is a crime and equal for everyone irrespective of age, gender and old age and pregnant sisters---we NCW, Renuka and Girija support that totally and have said that time and again."

This is the biggest joke. Everyone knows what kind of morons NCW and Ministry of Women and Child Development is made up of. They support and protect nasty women who are out to get revenge or extort money. It won't be too long before they are driven out like street dogs.

"justice is blind (read gender-neutral)"

Since when is blind synonymous with gender-neutral...especially with respect to law and justice in India. I think temporal is the one who is comprehension-challenged.

"in democratic societies laws protect the meek and the weak against the excesses and tyranny of the mighty and the powerful"

This guy is surely day-dreaming.

hunh?

;)

i kno this is goin to sound extremly kiddish, but i am goin to say it any ways...
#128Final Word--Success: U ARE 4M NCW???????
WOWYEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!

Nailed Again?