Sakshi, don't watch water...its horrible! John Abraham and Lisa Ray in a fierce race to prove which of the two is MORE expressionless! I had wished that the film would win the Oscar just so the credibility of that damn award would be killed off forever in India...but no such luck! Even the Academy noticed the lack of acting ability. :-(
Bebo was kind. She didn't bring up Ash's infamous David Letterman appearance in some sort of grotesque leather suit with boots and fishnets that made her knees look like Winston Churchill or the London premiere of Bride and Prejudice outfit that got qualified by the Guardian as "geisha with a dead poodle around her neck."
:-)
Saks,
I sat through about 22 mins of Water before deciding to rescue my DVD player before it ended its agony by setting itself on fire. I still shudder when I think of it.
Loved your ' Jism - soft-porn'.
Hm excuse me? John is a GREAT actor and one day he will take over bollywood and kick Srk to the curb..you just watch and see =p
There are a selection of roles that John Abraham would be good at, I think. You can't be good at everything, and few Bollywood actors are. They all have their shtick, Kareena included.
But even a guy like Keanu Reeves who is expressionless times 10 compared to Abraham brought a zen-like mechanical urgency to "Speed" and I thought Abraham did that in "Dhoom". He's not a good actor, but he has good presence and in the hands of a good casting director he can do well.
Despite all the hype and fanfare Kareena has been a constant disappointment at the box office. When that's a given, she firing off about John(Expressionless), Rani(I get more money than her) or Bansali(Bad film maker) will hardly do her good. Not that John is an actor of reconing when it's just acting sans looks & body ; still he comes across as genuine in interviews. He is wooden faced, but given he has not done badly at the box office he could improve. Sunil Shetty, Sunny Deol(Pre Ghatak, Damini) anyone ?
Coming to Bebo, she is no Shabana Azmi or Meryl Streep. Her best acting to date has been in Chameli and she sucks -- I'm talking of Kareena's acting there :).
For that matter who is good these days ? SRK is SRK in every friggin movie and hadly the protagoanist(Sans a swades). Worse he sucked in the filmfare awards. The man needs to shut up. Rani & Aish don picture perfect makeups and Manish Malhotra dresses even when they are village belles. Aamir is a recluse. Saif is passing out. Rampal who ? -- and forget John, Rampal is a bigger wooden face than Atul Agnihotri. Hrithik is good--only in his dad's movies or in those that flop.Kajol-Someone shut her up or pour the 'Kofee' on her head. So except for Big B who is acting these days and making money with it ? Hardly any ...
u guys r so HILARIOUS. i spent 20 minutes laughing on da floor biting my head off. nd yes i agree wid all the comments that hav been posted. except 4 "wooden face"
Anuallavi - that was funny. :-)
Lets see - Omkara, Yuva, Asoka are just three other Kareena Kapoor movies come to mind for acting. I agree she hasn't yet matched the hype but I think her opinion of John Abraham is spot on.
I am no Aishwarya fan and have yet to find her convincing in any film so shall reserve judgement.
But lets see - Rani in Black was hardly about Manish Malhotra outfits. Rani in Yuva was not only sans make up and glamour but worked on looking downright dowdy but came across as a brilliant actress. We could make an entire list btw!
Why is Aamir Khan's being a recluse a reflection on his acting abilities?
Or Saif's passing out the same. Surely you watched him in Omkara. Please convince me that John Abrahams could carry that role.
Rampal is in Abraham's league so no contest there.
Dhoom 2 wasn't a Rakesh Roshan movie. Neither was Mission Kashmir, Fiza or Kabhi Khushi Kabhi Gham. Like Rani, we could be here a while!
Big B may be "acting" but is serving up flops in equal if not higher numbers and is hardly Mr. Bankable. See whats happened with Eklavya and Nishabd!
You can be fascinated by Abraham's dimples, smile, body - in general looks. And more power to you. Be a fan by all means. But please, fan-dom hardly means taking leave real hard facts.
Oops - Anupallavi, spelt your name wrong. Apologies.
Anamika,
Kareena - Omkara : Maybe. Asoka & Yuva ? Really ? Asoka ? First half of the movie is Kareena's body and the second half is deadbodies. It was an insult to a great king.
Rani: In Black, she was good in parts. Same with Yuva or Saathiya both of which got her acclaim. You need to check out Yuva, Saathiya's Tamil versions to see what acting is about. No fluff, pure downright good movies. And when Rani emerges from her coma, her make up is intact. Shalini in Tamil version is a mess as one should be after a fatal accident and a brain surgery..
Aamir : Love him. But if he takes 4 years between movies as was prior to Mangal Pandey, it is crazy.
Hrithik : I do not dislike the guy. What's not to like. He did do very well in Mission Kashmir & Fiza. Just that his biggest grossers are his dad's movies and those are not my favorites, acting wise.
Big B: Not that he has not doled out his share of duds. But the fact that a 60+ old aging superstar is giving everyone a run for their money is a testament enough. For every Ekalavya, he also has had a Baaghban or a Black.
Btw, for the record, I do not like John; Just that the guy comes across as forthright,genuine in interviews and is not rehearsed as are many. He has potential.
Kareena is way too better when one compares her to the likes of John Abraham and Bipashas. The problem with her I see is that she concentrates more on proper Bollywood masala flicks and therefore lack of creativity. If she did films like Chameli and Omkara, maybe just maybe people might start looking at her differently.
As for Aishwarya..well she is a complete director's actor. If handled well....she can be awesome otherwise pathetic with a capital P.
And lastly we regards to Mr. Abraham being genuine and all....well all I will say "In Bollywood appearances are 99.9% deceptive". I wish I could spill the beans but then that would be mean cheating a friend...for entertaining a few. But keeping professional life away from personal...I doubt whether this man will ever make a mark as an "actor". He just doesn't seem to have it in him....
This guy and the big Bacchan seem quite nice look. They should be made top actor instead of Chahrukhh.
Anupallavi - I am not going to open up that can of worms on South/North films and which are "better" because it descends into regional chauvinism rather than reasoned debate. Moreover it is completely pointless.
I will however point out that DIFFERENT performance styles, kinds of acting, narratives, indeed rasas work in different parts of India (this is not me but the Natyashastra that delineated the forms of performance preferred in different regions of India). To assume that any of them is "better" or indeed will work across the board is a fallacy. This applies to cinema too: So Shalini vs Rani is a moot point because you may as well compare Meryl Streep with Shabana Azmi.
Beyond that: Either Rani does nothing but prance about in Manish Malhotra costumes or she acts. Seems like you can't make up your mind.
Same goes for your comment on Aamir. Surely its his prerogative WHEN he makes a film? He took a break before Mangal Pandey and then had back to back releases with RDB and Fanaa in 2007. So which is it?
For the record, Dhoom 2 was the bigger of Hrithik's grossers last year - including being bigger than Krrsh. So the line about dad's films is nothing more than regurgitating filmi press instead of trade statistics. (Similar btw to the notion that Shahrukh works only with Yash Raj productions when his filmography shows otherwise).
Finally, interviews, rumours etc help make the star persona. But surely you aren't going to BELIEVE what those project? More importantly - being sincere has nothing to do with the ability/inability to act. So big deal that Abraham comes off as "genuine" and not "rehearsed." Surely his job as an actor is to BE rehearsed and be expressive when he isn't playing himself on camera?
PS:For a non-fan, you sure swung to Abraham's defence. :-)
Kareena in chameli
I thought she was great in that movie. Probably the only movie that is closest to her as a person.
cheers
Totally agree on Asoka..It was the biggest insult ever that anyone can do to their own history. I was upset for a very long time. King Dharma-Asoka is revered here in Sri Lanka. (I know it is only a movie...but it still hurts)
AND I did the mistake of watching Water to check the local talent (Lankan that is) out and talk about wasting time...and money.
To be fair on the Bollywood actors, there is hardly any 'real' opportunity for them to show emotion in Bollywood movies. Because they are required to 'overact' all the time. You know those BIG crying scenes, angry scenes, happy scenes etc.. its so mechanical!
BUT all of them are sooooooo gorgeous...From where do you guys find these people. Arjun Rampal is soooo delumptious!!!
Die Hard, Asoka was quite an insult to human intelligence. But I'm interested in your views on Water. Can you share a more nuanced evaluation of the movie?
Nuanced evaluation...let me try Somik.
The story was about widowed Hindu women 'young and old' in the pre-independence era. The thing is it was just a half-hearted attempt of making a movie on a really controversial issue (Hindu customs regarding widows) and failing to transform it to a convincing film with authentic acting and thereby failing in a thematic sense. It was just an on-the-surface job. It simply does not explore the vast array of human complexities that such stories naturally allow... It was all over the place. AND it was too long.(Typical of Indian movies)
Casting was terrible. Lisa Ray was only good-looking. John Abraham, really, indescribably horrible. The man simply cannot act! I remember there was this particular scene where LR's corpse was found in the river...and JA's expression on having found the corpse of his lover - was a blank.
It's an overall disappointment after the hype of Hindu Fundamentalist burning the set and having to film it in SL and all that. What more can I say.. it wasn't that much of a big deal.
Nuanced and Water? Methinks thats an oxymoron!
The film has all the subtlety of a sledgehammer belabouring a poin popular in the West but beaten to pulp. For the record, the adult protagonists cannot speak the language properly - it is torture just to hear them massacre Hindi.
We were so happy that we had managed to get rid of Lisa Ray but now she is back! :-(
But I suppose it says something about our much maligned directors who didn't cast her (except that Bhatt horror Kasoor!). Thank you Karan Johar, Adi Chopra, Sanjay Leela Bhansali et al.
Die Hard - just a note. Water isn't Bollywood! Most filmmakers from that industry would be insulted to have it classified as Bollywood.
Its not even Indian. Its a Canadian film made by a "diaspora" director of Indian origin using some actors from the subcontinent and meant for a firang audience. Just having a few brown people or indeed setting a story supposedly in India doesn't make it Indian. :-)
My bad Anamika.. I guess I made that mistake because the director is of Indian origin.
Most of the adult actors are Lankan hence the language problem..
The fact of the matter is
a. We mostly dont make good movies (only 1% of potential population watch our biggest hits)
b. Most of the industry is based on cronyism (somebody is related to somebody)
c. The story lines haven't changed much during the last 70 years. So much so it is actually possible to predict the dialogue
d. We often make copies of western movies and originals are rare (those that are very good)
e. Most of bollywood is in fact Punjabi. Either the actors/ actresses or directors/ producers (most have a punjabi connection, muslims and bengalis follow)
f. Most bollywood movie character names in recent times are Punjabi (never understood why). Either the guy is a malhotra or kapoor or somebody like that.
g. Most of our actors and actresses dont know to act (Most are good looking blokes at best)
Mostly, our movie industry is boring.......
rgds
Chandra: Really? Lets look at Hollywood the:
a. We mostly dont make good movies (only 1% of potential population watch our biggest hits)
Same holds! Despite the colonized mindset of some Indian who hold that anything the West produces is better.
b. Most of the industry is based on cronyism (somebody is related to somebody)
Ever heard of Spielberg? And Lucas? And Ford? Or going further back Meyer? All cronies!
c. The story lines haven't changed much during the last 70 years. So much so it is actually possible to predict the dialogue
YAWN! Same goes for ANY form of art which tells stories and remains the same. Hollywood recycles but that is called "homage" by the mentally/intellectually colonized.
d. We often make copies of western movies and originals are rare (those that are very good)
And Hollywood copies Hong Kong, French and Italian cinema that are very rarely good. As for originals, please tell me which of the followings are copies: Kabhi Khushi Kabhi Gham, Lagaan, Munna Bhai MBBS (being copied now by Hollywood), Mohabbatein, Deewar, Kaagaz ke Phool, Dilwale Dulhaniya Le Jayenge, Rudaali?
e. Most of bollywood is in fact Punjabi. Either the actors/ actresses or directors/ producers (most have a punjabi connection, muslims and bengalis follow)
Most of Hollywood is white, AngloSaxon Protestant with marginal roles for other ethnicities and races. Many actors still have to change their names and colouring to hide their ethnic origins and to fit the stereotype of blonde and white. The biggest example being Jennifer Aniston!
f. Most bollywood movie character names in recent times are Punjabi (never understood why). Either the guy is a malhotra or kapoor or somebody like that.
Most characters in Hollywood have Christian, Anglo Saxon names unless they are marginal and thus Italian, Greek, Asian, at which point they are either tokens or for jokes.
g. Most of our actors and actresses dont know to act (Most are good looking blokes at best)
And Brad Pitt, Heath Ledger, Angelina Jolie, Julia Roberts are ugly but great actors!
Mostly, our movie industry is boring.......
Ditto for Hollywood!
See it works both ways!!!!!
Chandra, that point you make "a. We mostly dont make good movies (only 1% of potential population watch our biggest hits)" is one that has troubled me for a while. There is a lot of anecdotal information about how the Hindi film industry has been losing money for decades. But somehow it all gets financed and people get rich - and there has been plenty of explorations of connections with the underworld so I won't go there.
But it does raise the question of how legitimate *is* Bollywood? There are now multiple trade papers that publish numbers and although the way the numbers are reported are questionable (this applies somewhat to Hollywood also), we get a better picture - but its still far from even being modestly transparent.
one of the reasons why Bollywod trade figures are distorted is because its a traditionally cash based economy. However, now that its been officially recognised as an industry and you can get banks to finance you, etc there is more transparency.
Again, piracy is huge in Bollywood. They need to tackle that issue soon. I think what Rajshri did with their last release (making it available on the net) was a good move but they need to make it cheaper than the 10 bucks or whatever they were charging.
Another factor is the distribution business. This is where a lot of the "black money" is generated. But now that people like Vidhu Vinod Chopra are asking for a proportionate share of the pie, that's also getting slowly standardized.
there's a fix available for every bollywood ill. Let's start by pushing Sanjay Leela Bhansali chained to KJo off a cliff. :)
And whats with the whole "Punjabi" thrashing...??? I doubt religion or faith has anything to do with it.
As a matter of fact..(though it may sound a little un-real) Bollywood is one industry where all faiths/religion blend together. Ya but one point has to be noted.."money" is the absolute necessary ingredient.
Amrita - babes...why SLB. I like him no. But Kjo along with Chopra gang down the hill..works fine for me. :)
Hi Sakshi
Did not mean to do any Punjabi thrashing.
Just quoted some data.
I ran through a sample of 31 heroes and heroines....54% of them were punjabi
% of Punjabis in India's population - 3%.
rgds
Anamika
Hollywood kahan aa gaya hain picture mein? mein tho bollywood ka baat kar rahan tha.....
Agree with you about Lagaan and Deewar (what I call good hindi movies)
I am not a great SRK or KJ fan...I was probably the only cinema goer who left the hall mid-way while watching DDLJ, so that whole series of melodrama stuff is sick.
cheers
Anamika,
It does not need a rocket scientist to deduce that I was commenting about the sorry state of affairs in Hindi movies. Aamir doing one movie in 4 years does not give me much of yardstick to judge his "current" acting skills, unless I go by the filmi press which the elite like you despise ? So how about you decide.., do we trust the filmi press ?
Acting is acting. There are different styles - Agreed. But when two actors essay the same role and you say comparison is not game, you must be kidding. I can just comprehend basics of Tamil and I was impressed with Shalini. It speaks volumes about her as an actress. I damn well know hindi(spoken all my life) and still no matter how I slice Rani sucked in Saathiya. By the way why are you pinning for the bengali babe Rani ?
If comparing south to north is chavunism Oscars should have regional awards as well, a la Filmfare.
colonized mindset, sure, there it comes. I was wondering why someone did not rake that up ! Why is it so difficult to admit what's a given ? You are comparing Bollywood a Laloo to Hollywood an Al Gore. Sure each has their own good and bads, but it's foolish to compare the two. Your comments about Pitt, Jolie,Spielberg etc was , well whatever ...
Anamika, I agree with you on cronism and nepotism and so on..it's not unique to India.
But c'mon Indian movies aren't so great... We in SL make and therefore see much better movies (in thematic and acting sense). We only make handful for a year. There are lot of problems for Lankan film makers such as funds and therefore issues in technical, engineering and so on. However, with limited resources they do a better job than the mighty Indian industry, me thinks.
Seriously there can't be shortage of talent in India. Indians (Punjabi/Bengali they are all the same to me)are so talented, hardworking and competitive. Don't have to mention the beauty factor.
So what/where is the problem?
Die Hard
You can probably get away with saying anything about Lankan movies. Nobody watches Lankan movies here :-)
I think our overt criticism about bollywood and its movies does not mean to suggest that we dont make good movies at all. If we didn't- SRK and Big B would not have been popular in countries ranging from Malaysia to Egypt for nothing.
Secondly, as much as I like to criticise Bolly, my opinion about Holly is exactly the same. I suspect that a critical review of lankan movies would yield the same result too.
cheers
Absolutely no body watches Lankan movies except few Lankans. No mass production. No big market, no real money in movies in SL. Hence movies that are made here (mostly)are for the sake of art. Does not mean that there aren't any potboilers...
However, we watch a lot of Holly and Bolly. SRK is far more popular than Brad Pitt or Tom Cruise. Aiswarya Rai is worshiped. AND certainly there are quality films and film makers in India.
We spent a lot of money and time on Bolly movies. So there is nothing wrong in expecting quality and a certain standard from them.
As I see it there is a serious lack of will in the main stream Bollywood to move away from the conventional song-dance-fight routine. The reason for sticking to it is a mistry.
This does not mean that song-dance-fight is not entertaining...It certainly is an acquired taste. I recently saw Dhoom 1 and I can't wait to see 2.
But after seeing them it leaves you with that hollow feeling...Because you know that Indian films can do more to entertain...
[ARDENT JOHN ABRAHAM FAN RANTS LEWDLY]
Amrita
URL
March 10, 2007
09:32 AM
Ha! what's the dish on the ex, humein bhi batao and we'll agree :D